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Post by stillfocused on Nov 12, 2005 15:04:26 GMT -5
A few days ago, someone made one of the hardest comments to accept; yet, it was one has me thinking for 2 days. The comment was regarding African American Preachers. And this time the person is not the place to receive from one. Even though the comment was cutting and deep; the wound within that person's spirit was deeper and bleeding every badly. One of the thoughts that came to me was that even though people are saved and love the Lord deeply; that they when that walk away; they are not walking away from Christ; yet they are walking away from what we know as organized church. Many have sought counsel, healing, and encouragement from leaders who are not whole themselves. So, instead of placing the healing balm of Gilead on the open and bleeding wounds; they placed band-aids on them; providing a temporary fix. They place blame and point fingers; not wanting to accept responsibility for the wounding of another's soul they have or may have costed making matters worse than they in the beginning. I asked the question was this just happening in African American congregations, and I know the answer is no. The words that kept into coming into my spirit was " Woe to the Shepherds who scatter my sheep". I know it's easy to place blame on the wounded believer; and that's the not the heart of God. As leaders, ministers, Pastors, and believers the question becomes who have offended ? Who have you chased away from the house of the Lord they God placed there ? Who have you hindered ? And lastly who have costed turn away never to return ? There are questions that was placed on my heart on Thursday, I have rewrite them because I was at work and writng them at the same time.
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Post by auneeqsol on Dec 6, 2005 14:38:26 GMT -5
Yes that is true Stillfocused, I have thought on these things my own self because I have friends that have left ministries because of hurt and abuse, and it sort of saddened my heart and made me angry. The pastors that they were under would refer to them as being backslidden, or not in the will of God or "out there" or "messed up", and I have a problem with that. I believe in Pastors, leaders etc being human yes indeed, but they still have to be held accountable for what they have said and done to these souls. People who want to cover them say things like, "Well its not for us to judge, God will get them, " or "Well God is yet in control and he sees what's going on". And the leaders are just going on like "business as usual" and I dont think that should be accepted. That's not the love of Christ. True Humility is being able to confess your faults one to another , and come clean about what you have done and said to wound a sheep as the leader or overseer of the flock. I think its time for leaders to be accountable for their actions and not excuse themselves or others excuse them just because they are "God's man, or God's woman" right is right , and wrong will forever be wrong. It's tight but its always right we just have to accept it..  |
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Post by being quiet on Jan 12, 2006 15:18:58 GMT -5
I agree also but what about when the pastor is doing things that are very immoral with his congregants. But then says Woe the one who cause dissemination...I wonder is that even a quote from the Word of God.  |
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Grace
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Post by Grace on Jan 12, 2006 16:15:01 GMT -5
I beleive those in the position as the Sheperd should be accountable. First and foremost they are accountable to God, and all should remember that no man is above God.
As far as people leaving churches because of hurt feeling or abuse or what ever the case may be. By all means I am not saying that a person should stay anywhere they are being abused, but I would tell any person to consult God and see where they should be. I would nevre advocate any person just walking away from church period. The bible states how can they hear without a preacher.
As ministers and pastors of the gospel we must always ensure that we are wise as serpents but harmless as doves. Although they are human they must be accountable for all actions. Now a true man or woman of God who has the holy spirit should be convicted when they have hurt or abused a memeber of his or her congregation. Makes me wonder if they are not.
As far as the poster who stated what about the pastor who is doing immoral things with their memebers, i say more than Woe. GOd is not mocked and people better get right because all must account for all that they do. And they need to be sat down if that is the case.
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Post by Jasmine nsi on Jan 12, 2006 18:25:31 GMT -5
You know, sometimes that is just a cycle, with those who want to continue on in their ways. Yes understand we have some people who are hurting with "Church experience". Saints, we all have been hurt by people in our local assembly as everyone is not saved. And even those who are saved, because we cannot get over things, we hold on and become bitter. We also need to stop tearing down congregations. The "CHURCH" itself has not hurt you. Somebody struggling with mess, took it out on you, and now you running from the local assembly.
DO we yet realize that people are not perfect, and no matter where you fellowship, you will experience a hurt, from a member of your church? Should that cause us to leave? no. Look the devil in the eye, and tell him you aint playing with him.
I am one of the most empathizing, sypathing persons in the world, yet sometimes we have to understand, people are looking for excuses to not be accountable, and turn away. That is the trick of the enemy.
The enemy drives us from fellowship, and the ultimately from God.
If a person is being so abused, hurt and broke down by its local assembly, then seek God, and ask him to release and relocate you. If the pastor is doing immoral things with the congregation, pray for him, "because ye who are spiritual, should restore him with the spirit of meekness" and if willing pray that the Lord remove you from that church and place you somewhere else.
I dont mean to sound harsh, but I do understand that "church hurt" kind be some of the worse kind of hurt around, If we can't take sister so and so ripping and running our name in the mudd, how are we going to take those seeking to kill us because we name the name of Christ.
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Grace
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Posts: 186
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Post by Grace on Jan 13, 2006 13:35:26 GMT -5
Amen Jasmine you are definitely correct the church as a whole has not done anything to the person. Sometimes people have got to learn to get over hurt. YOur right all have experienced some level of hurt while in church and if you haven't keep living and being saved you will. When dealing with people it comes with the territory.
True Jasmine some people are looking for others to advocate what they want to do. But if a person got their feelings hurt because someone told them the truth then all I can say is they need to get over it and stop blaming the church.
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Post by lanl ns on Jan 13, 2006 14:27:49 GMT -5
I beleive those in the position as the Sheperd should be accountable. First and foremost they are accountable to God, and all should remember that no man is above God. As far as people leaving churches because of hurt feeling or abuse or what ever the case may be. By all means I am not saying that a person should stay anywhere they are being abused, but I would tell any person to consult God and see where they should be. I would nevre advocate any person just walking away from church period. The bible states how can they hear without a preacher. As ministers and pastors of the gospel we must always ensure that we are wise as serpents but harmless as doves. Although they are human they must be accountable for all actions. Now a true man or woman of God who has the holy spirit should be convicted when they have hurt or abused a memeber of his or her congregation. Makes me wonder if they are not. As far as the poster who stated what about the pastor who is doing immoral things with their memebers, i say more than Woe. GOd is not mocked and people better get right because all must account for all that they do. And they need to be sat down if that is the case. I agree with you Grace, God is not mocked! I understand people being hurt with the church experience, and these days there is no accountability in the churches. Personally speaking, I am fed up with some of the leaders of these churches and how this everything swept under the rug attitude has taken over the church. Because of my relationship with God, I could not forsake the Lord nor my beliefs in the Lord. But sometimes "church politricks" make you wanna holler out "who is living holy among the people?" |
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Post by lanl ns on Jan 13, 2006 14:32:47 GMT -5
And I am sick of these "bought titles."
All it takes to be a Bishop is a couple Hundred thousands of dollars $$$$, no lifestyle of Holiness required whatsoever.
We got homosexual bishops, pastors, choir directors, ushers and everything else and no one is preaching out against.............
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Post by being quiet on Jan 13, 2006 16:18:01 GMT -5
You know what I am tired of.....I am tired of the saying that I hear at I disagreeembly We will see who is living Holy after while...I think that is a bunch of whodo...I believe it will be just me and God...and no on lookers at my judging....any one else wanting to comment.
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Post by Jasmine nsi on Jan 13, 2006 16:48:24 GMT -5
LOL!
thats kind of self-righteous. just YOU and GOD? there are plently of Righteous people living the life that GOD is pleased with.
See, where KB at..since he done got tired, everybody done grown tired! It's contagious!
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Post by keita on Jan 13, 2006 19:20:23 GMT -5
You know what I am tired of.....I am tired of the saying that I hear at I disagreeembly We will see who is living Holy after while...I think that is a bunch of whodo...I believe it will be just me and God...and no on lookers at my judging....any one else wanting to comment. LOLOL! Is a "disagreeembly" the opposite of "assembly"? LOL! thats kind of self-righteous. just YOU and GOD? there are plently of Righteous people living the life that GOD is pleased with. See, where KB at..since he done got tired, everybody done grown tired! It's contagious! In the words of the old song, "I don't feel noways tired!" I think I read that post differently, Jas. I thought the poster was sharing his/her belief that judgment will be a "one to one", private situation between each believer and God. |
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Post by jasmine nsi on Jan 13, 2006 19:39:49 GMT -5
you know when I re-read it, I saw differently as well.
I can see how i misread the comment. My bad!
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Post by being quiet on Jan 13, 2006 20:01:17 GMT -5
That is what I was saying forgive me if it came across kinda on the wrong side. Just a one on one thing with God. Not just me.....Everyone will get their chance...In my very personal opinion....  |
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Post by stillfocused on Jan 13, 2006 21:27:17 GMT -5
I have reading the posts for a few days..I agree that there is no accountability; yet, I have to disagree with the reasoning that some don't want to be accountable. Most people who have been hurt by leadership are those who themselves who were in leadership..submitted and accountable to those in leadership. And were very close with their Pastors as this woman was. LANL you're right everything does go from the pulpit to the backdoor. When we think of "church hurt"; we always stop at the obvious...gossip !! That can be overcome..in many works..but, humilation, being preached at from the pulpit, being silenced because somebody in leadership sowed strifed..through prophesy those things are not right. Having someone tell you just pray..that's what I called you to. I am finding out that because we preach a soft gospel alot of people continue live any kind of what they want to. I have always found quite interesting when those who have been abused or hurt are told to get over it..you're being disobedient and not submitted to leadership; you need to repent to "Pastor". Yet, even Pastor is very aware that there a problem between Sis 50 Lashes and Pastor..Pastor doesn't lay down that gift at the altar and go that thang right. Justification says I am the Pastor and I don't have to go her and ask for forgiveness..she'd better come to me and if she leaves...she's out of the will of God and nothing she does from this day forth will blessed. And to ice the cake..the congregation is told that they cannot fellowship or talk to Sis 50 Lashes because Pastor said so..and since I am cutting her off..you have to, too !! This is the junk happening in our churches and coming from pulpits across this country...my Bible tells me that those who teach will have a stricter judgment...it's just amazing many have forgotten that and the verses to follow found in the book of James.
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Post by keita on Jan 13, 2006 21:30:12 GMT -5
That is what I was saying forgive me if it came across kinda on the wrong side. Just a one on one thing with God. Not just me.....Everyone will get their chance...In my very personal opinion.... No worries, BQ!  I don't profess to know if the judgment scenario you're believing is actually scriptural (does anyone have any scripture on this?)...but on a personal level, I'd kinda like to think so. Btw, I'm still laughing about the "disagreeembly". I once had a season with one of those and now I have the perfect word for it!  |
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