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Post by GiantsDODie ns on Jan 25, 2006 9:05:45 GMT -5
A Still, I was at dinner with the Pastor of this church as he was telling us about his "new" revelation. The Lord, may have dealt his about the tithing.... I personal wouldn't removed people from the church membership, but they will not be able to be in the choir, PW, usher or be a minister in my church.... Why should a handful of people tithes and the other come to get fat off of the word, sing in the choir, praise team, dance, do drama, usher, minister and be present at the business meeting and don't do their part. YES it is scripture..... If you don't want to tithe.... than give like those in the book of Acts.... 100% ;D ATT I look at it this way. Tithing is the will of God. It is His Word and it is his requirement. Now I am not speaking of those who cannot tithe because they have no income or those who simply havent been taught. However when you have been taught and you KNOW God's will then I have to agree with you ATT I could not allow someone who is in willful disobedience to God's word be on the praise and worship team. How you gonna worship when you are disobedient??? I dont agree with putting them out the church unless GOD says put them out, and God does put folks out. |
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Grace
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Post by Grace on Jan 25, 2006 9:58:06 GMT -5
I don't think there is anything wrong with tithing. But to call people out and tellthem they can't be a memeber of the church is a tad excessive to me. Now the bigger question or concern for me is, if i tithe and yet my heart is not right in my tithing is that ok.
If i'm tithing out of obligation or with a nasty attitude, God is not impressed nor does he look well on that. Now by all means I am not saying that people shouldn't tithe. All I'm saying is if we want people to tithe then we better teach what the OLD and New Testament say in regards to it.
Its very interesting that this new revelation comes on the heels of the new church being built.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Jan 25, 2006 11:05:45 GMT -5
Its very interesting that this new revelation comes on the heels of the new church being built. And it may be that is what this is all about!  |
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Post by keita nsi on Jan 25, 2006 13:04:30 GMT -5
... All I'm saying is if we want people to tithe then we better teach what the OLD and New Testament say in regards to it. That very lack of balance in "tithing teachings" is one of my main issues too, Grace. Like you, I am not in any way "anti-tithing" but I do oppose false teaching on the matter. I find that much of the teaching can often be rather selective even with the Old Testament scriptures on "tithing". I believe that when we teach with the balance you suggest, we find a progression that goes something like this: Tithing is good. Giving is better. Freely giving is best. Frankly, I would take one "freely giving" congregation over ten "tithing" ones. It has been both my personal and congregational experience that the two spirits can be very different. Indeed. In many cases, paying membership dues simply gets the new name of paying tithes. And let's face it, threatening people with a curse from God can be a very effective way to get the bills paid. And speaking of things that make me go "hmmmm"... With so many old covenant matters and practices which so many new covenant believers claim we need no longer adhere to because "we are not under the law", what exactly makes tithing one of the scriptural exceptions? |
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Post by ATT on Jan 25, 2006 13:34:19 GMT -5
... All I'm saying is if we want people to tithe then we better teach what the OLD and New Testament say in regards to it. That very lack of balance in "tithing teachings" is one of my main issues too, Grace. Like you, I am not in any way "anti-tithing" but I do oppose false teaching on the matter. I find that we can often be rather selective even with Old Testament scriptures on tithing. I believe that when we teach with the balance you suggest, we find a progression that goes something like this: Tithing is good. Giving is better. Freely giving is best. Frankly, I would take one "freely giving" congregation over ten "tithing" ones. It has been my experience that the two spirits can be very different. Indeed. In many cases, paying membership dues simply gets the new name of paying tithes. And let's face it, threatening people with a curse from God can be a very effective way to get the bills paid. The Bible tell us to do BOTH PAY TITHES and GIVE OFFERING..... The Bible tell us that if we don't pay tithes and give offering, we are curse with a curse.... So you saying the Bible is false... It is spelled out in the scripture. Paying tithes and giving offering never ceased in the New Testament. I believe the same result in the OT is in the NT for disobedient to the Word of God. Giving offering will never be better than paying tithes.... it do really count until you walk in obedience in paying tithes first (your first fruit). ATT |
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Post by lanl ns on Jan 25, 2006 14:27:18 GMT -5
With so many old covenant matters and practices which so many new covenant believers claim we need no longer adhere to because "we are not under the law", what exactly makes tithing one of the scriptural exceptions?
I don't want to change the subject but is it written in the New Testament that people can mix clothing materials which was forbidden in the Old Testament?
I asked that question because many times people will say that the Bible never told us to stop paying tithes so I just wondered did the Bible ever tell us "specifically" to stop doing any of the Old Testament beliefs. |
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Post by keita on Jan 25, 2006 14:46:09 GMT -5
The Bible tell us to do BOTH PAY TITHES and GIVE OFFERING..... The Bible tell us that if we don't pay tithes and give offering, we are curse with a curse.... I think you and I might have some disagreement about who that "us" and "we" was/is. Because I am so accustomed to your accusatory "teaching style", I'm just gonna pretend that was a question and simply answer that I believe the bible is the written word of God. It certainly is and in great detail. Unfortunately, our biblical teaching and understanding of tithing tends to be (conveniently?) limited only to Malachi 3. I don't think I said that it ceased but I will say that that is a highly debatable subject, especially given that the Levitical priesthood did cease. More importantly, I do think the new covenant clearly ordains a more excellent way of giving. I don't and Jesus is the reason. Otherwise, for just 1 example, Jesus would have allowed the woman caught in adultery to be stoned. I believe for new covenant believers, "giving" always trumps "paying", especially if it's freely done and is one's best gift. [/size] [/quote] If by "do" you meant "doesn't" and you believe that is true, all I would say is "Tithe on, my sister!" I ain't mad atcha for it! But I do disagree with you. |
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Post by keita on Jan 25, 2006 14:55:35 GMT -5
With so many old covenant matters and practices which so many new covenant believers claim we need no longer adhere to because "we are not under the law", what exactly makes tithing one of the scriptural exceptions?
I don't want to change the subject but is it written in the New Testament that people can mix clothing materials which was forbidden in the Old Testament?
I asked that question because many times people will say that the Bible never told us to stop paying tithes so I just wondered did the Bible ever tell us "specifically" to stop doing any of the Old Testament beliefs. I think we're asking the same questions, lanl. |
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Post by ATT on Jan 25, 2006 14:56:59 GMT -5
If by "do" you meant "doesn't" and you believe that is true, all I would say is "Tithe on, my sister!" I ain't mad atcha for it! Sorry... it suppose to be DON'T really count |
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Post by keita on Jan 25, 2006 14:59:32 GMT -5
LOL! Okay, sis!  |
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Post by Beck on Jan 25, 2006 15:02:07 GMT -5
With so many old covenant matters and practices which so many new covenant believers claim we need no longer adhere to because "we are not under the law", what exactly makes tithing one of the scriptural exceptions?
I don't want to change the subject but is it written in the New Testament that people can mix clothing materials which was forbidden in the Old Testament?
I asked that question because many times people will say that the Bible never told us to stop paying tithes so I just wondered did the Bible ever tell us "specifically" to stop doing any of the Old Testament beliefs. I think the answer that most would give you is Tithing Preceded the law, and should be done based on relationship between God and Man. |
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Post by keita on Jan 25, 2006 15:13:46 GMT -5
I think the answer that most would give you is Tithing Preceded the law, and should be done based on relationship between God and Man. I actually think that's one of the better arguments, elderbeck... But it also comes with its own "can of worms" and some really interesting debates that I've heard and participated in. LOL! Right about now, I feel the need to once again reiterate that I AM NOT ANTI-TITHING!  |
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Post by Beck on Jan 25, 2006 15:20:51 GMT -5
I think the answer that most would give you is Tithing Preceded the law, and should be done based on relationship between God and Man.
But it also comes with its own "can of worms" and some really interesting debates that I've heard and participated in.
LOL! Right about now, I feel the need to once again reiterate that I AM NOT ANTI-TITHING! I agree with you, and I would never question your stance or anyone elses stance on tithing... I have heard so many things also about that view and about the Mal 3:10... One of which was "didnt Christ become a curse to remove the curse"? If so how could we say that we are cursed? Also I think the context of the scripture needs to be the focus.."why did God say it, and who did he say it to, and what does the storehouse represent". |
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Post by keita on Jan 25, 2006 15:43:54 GMT -5
I agree with you, and I would never question your stance or anyone elses stance on tithing... I honestly wasn't directing my "clarification" to you, but just a general attempt at staying clear regarding my perspective. I think those are some really great questions for any mature believers' discussion on tithing. |
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Post by kanyon on Jan 25, 2006 15:47:58 GMT -5
I just have two thoughts on this... New Testement giving is thus, "As the Lord has prospered him, so let him give." Last years prosperity might have been 10% better than the year before...this years prosperering may be 30% percent greater than last year so it stands to reason that my giving this year should reflect that...not legalism, just a response to blessing. Gods math does not agree with 2+2= 4. His blessing for me always is out of proportion to my giving to him. It may well be 10% giving by me = 100% blessing by God. The giving nature that we gladly display is concrete proof of the resident nature of God within us. Quiting the sins of the flesh is no proof of the nature of God within. Giving is..."For God so loved the world that He gave..." |
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