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Post by Giants DO Die ns on Jan 25, 2006 15:48:15 GMT -5
This is what I dont get in all seriousness.
The Bible says that ALL the silver and gold belongs to the Lord. Everything is His. In all honesty we own nothing but are stewards. Now if we are the stewards then we are responsible to give to the Master what He requires with the proper heart attitude.
I dont agree with much of what is taught in terms of tithes and offerings when it is taught as a means of doinimation and intimidation. However when it is taught as an act of obedience and worship unto the Lord then to me there is no argument.
I believe should not place a good, better , best type of criteria on obeying God and honoring God, because He is worthy of ALL honor.
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Post by lanl ns on Jan 25, 2006 15:51:00 GMT -5
Amen to the last 4 posts: I agree with you, and I would never question your stance or anyone elses stance on tithing... I have heard so many things also about that view and about the Mal 3:10... One of which was "didnt Christ become a curse to remove the curse"? If so how could we say that we are cursed? Also I think the context of the scripture needs to be the focus.."why did God say it, and who did he say it to, and what does the storehouse represent". But a BIG AMEN to Elder Beck....great questions! Disclaimer: I am not AGAINST Tithes; however I believe that the word should be taught with understanding. No one should feel bad because of tithes, because once one understand the principles behind tithing / giving it should be NO questions as to what a Child of God will or will not do. But do not take the teaching of tithes and twist it as if tithes is the KEY to the North Pole with Santa and all his elves....it is the way tithes are being taught these days that I have a problem with............. |
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Jan 25, 2006 16:24:53 GMT -5
I look forward to a "tithes discussion" based on the questions elderbeck posed. I was one to take a "stand" PRO TITHES OR CURSED approach. I no longer am that dogmatic about it. As of late, through my time with the Lord, I am understanding that it is a "heart issue". I will give as He purposes in my heart without feeling condemned and/or cursed!
I am not against tithes.
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Post by ATT on Jan 25, 2006 16:38:40 GMT -5
The Problem is that it is not being taught..... If it was being taught (correctly), people would not have a problem with paying tithes, it will be automatically with most believers. Disobeying God it a sin, and the wages of sin is death, but as far as place condemnation on God's people is a NO NO.... disobeying should bring conviction, not condemnation on the believers. Conviction should bring repentant.
ATT
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Post by Beck on Jan 25, 2006 16:43:32 GMT -5
The Problem is that it is not being taught..... If it was being taught (correctly), people would not have a problem with paying tithes, it will be automatically with most believers. Disobeying God it a sin, and the wages of sin is death, but as far as place condemnation on God's people is a NO NO.... disobeying should bring conviction, not condemnation on the believers. Conviction should bring repentant. ATT Now I see how Jesus felt when questioned by the Pharisaical Jews... |
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Post by keita on Jan 25, 2006 17:23:42 GMT -5
...And why He was so hard on them regarding this very issue. (See Matthew 23)
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Post by keita on Jan 25, 2006 17:26:26 GMT -5
This is what I dont get in all seriousness.
The Bible says that ALL the silver and gold belongs to the Lord. Everything is His. In all honesty we own nothing but are stewards. Amen. Giants, I think part of the issue here is in fact scripturally answering the question, "What does the Lord require?", regarding new covenant believers and the tithe. No question that whatever that is should be given "with the proper heart attitude". I think we (well a lot of us) have found a lot of agreement about that on this thread and would add some other objectionable means. Me neither. But in many instances that often just does not seem to really be the basis or the motivation for the teaching/practice. I unquestionably agree with you that God is worthy of ALL honor. I'm also sorry if my use of that comparative language troubles you, but I do maintain that there's quite a bit of sound basis for seeing a "good-better-best" pattern in the scriptures. But, since neither of us wants to hijack this post  , I'll leave it for another time. |
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Post by ybrown on Jan 25, 2006 17:31:27 GMT -5
...and everything else that creates the legalism mindset.
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Post by keita on Jan 25, 2006 17:38:59 GMT -5
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Post by Jasmine on Jan 25, 2006 18:48:28 GMT -5
I give my tithes according to the income that has been brought into my house, and I give an offering according to what God has purposed in my heart.
It shouldn't be out of obligation for "church expenses" that you bring your first fruits into the storehouse, however we do have to realize that the church does have obligations to meet.
I was the Administrative secretary for 6 years at my former church. Even with not having every member of the church bring in their tithe, the church never missed or fail behind on any payments. But I remember a couple of months when EVERY member gave their tithe, it was a great abundance. This did not include any offerings at all.
I understand the biblical principle of tithe, I understand the way that churches are set up to run. Each church financial system is really set up to have 100% participation with bringing in the tithes, because if every member tithes then the church can use the tithe money to handle church obligations, and the "offerings" that are brought in, can be placed into savings accounts and saved.
In my experience, most churches only want to operate off of the tithe, and really to me thats fine and ok.
Even in my giving 10% of my income, I still go above and beyond that in giving.
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Post by stillfocused on Jan 26, 2006 0:39:22 GMT -5
After reading through the posts I find that everyone has their own thoughts about tithing...and that's find. Yet, I have also noticed that we don't understand fully don't understand a matter then we spend alot of time trying to convince others that "our way" is the only and right "way". LANL..started a post because of something she observed and found very strange. Understandable. I know for a fact that I have not always tithed...yet, when I did work I paid my "dues". Until I was enlighted by the teaching of the word of God regarding tithes.
Yet, I have also been in a place where I could not tithe..the 10% and I still experienced the blessings of the Lord in my life. Seeing both the principle of "the Lord loves a a cheerful giver and the "Lord rebuking the devourer for my sake". And I have heard the teaching of Malachi 3 every Sunday... approx. 5 yrs that if when you don't tithe you rob and you are cursed with a curse when you didn't. And sat there wondering "okay, you don't take care of the orphan, the widow, and the alien..you're not be obedient to what God said..how come you're blessed and I am not". And yes, I have heard it explained that the funds in the "storehouse" is take care of the maintenance, the church salaries, and etc. and when someone needed assistance there were no funds. By there is another a chapter in the OT that gives guidelines for tithing..in reading in; it messed up some of the thoughts I had on tithing..
And by the way..I do tithe..
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Post by jasmine nsi on Jan 26, 2006 1:06:59 GMT -5
I believe that even though there are various opinions regarding tithes. The majority fully know and understand the matter. I understand that there are numerous churches that do not teach "tithing" but "giving". And really thats fine.
We are all God's children and because we are as such, He blesses us ALL. I honestly believe that in all my years of tithing..God isn't blessing me because I paid a tithe..He blesses me because of my faithfulness to bring 10% (my first fruits) back into HIS house. I am rewarded for my faithfulness, and having a heart thats right when it comes to money that God has blessed me with.
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Post by Guest on Jan 26, 2006 8:40:38 GMT -5
We are all God's children and because we are as such, He blesses us ALL. I honestly believe that in all my years of tithing..God isn't blessing me because I paid a tithe..He blesses me because of my faithfulness to bring 10% (my first fruits) back into HIS house. I am rewarded for my faithfulness, and having a heart thats right when it comes to money that God has blessed me with. This was probably one of the best statements I've heard thus far. God blesses according to the faithfulness not necessarily because of the act. There's a difference in God blessing " according to" and " because of". Because of Christ [not our righteouness], we inherit the promises. It's already a done deal. According to our level of operating in His righteousness given to us, we walk in degrees of manifestations of those promises. In other words, I don't want to miss walking in those things that Christ has already said I can have. I want him to release those things when he can see that I'm matured for its release in my life. God is looking for a faithful person not just a tither. God is looking for a person of faith who can still sow into a ministry [even if that ministry is caring for the widowed or orphans] when it seems nothing is changing for the moment. God is looking for a person who can give out of a pure heart of worship and not out of routine. I do believe that tithing preceded the law. But I was hearing a teacher say that even Jesus gave his tithes. How? You weren't allowed to enter a pharisees home unless you gave tithes and Jesus did enter a pharisees home. I personally believe this [it's okay to disagree]: Your tithe belong to God. Your offering is what you give. Your firstfruit is given at the beginning of the year. Your sowing is a seed that you give. Some may attest and say "That's alot of offerings" but just read through the OT and see how many offerings they had to bring. What you tithe belongs to God, what you give is between you and God. Others may say "Because of the NT" all that isn't necessary. Well, if God required all of this under the law and blessed, just think of how much more you will receive under grace. If you don't obligate yourself to tithe, give, sow [or whatever else you want to call it], then that's you. However, a person who understand and experiences the results of the principles of offerings/tithes, then they will be the benefactors. The level that you give will be the level you receive. This is not saying that God will not bless a person who doesn't give more than another, because the bible say favor can be given to a wicked man and that will not make him upright. God is looking not only for the act but for the integrity and faithfulness in what we do. If all you had to sow is $2, God will honor that just as much as he would a person sowing $500. It's about the "heart" in what you do. When God elevates your finances or he's trying to move your faith level to another level in giving, then it will require you to give more. You can't stay on the $2 level all your life when you know in your heart you should sacrifice $100, not for a man but for the kingdom. God wants us to apply our faith not only in the ability to receive but in our ability to release. That's really all that offerings, sowing, tithing is all about. The principles and not just the acts should be taught in churches. The saints should see their leaders exemplify the message they proclaim concerning giving because in alot of churches, the congregants reflect their leadership [and other times, it's just like the people during Moses time]. Now, when money is always being beat over people's head and it's always being strategically used to con people into a certain project, then this can raise eyebrows. Some times people don't give their tithes or offerings so leaders get in their flesh as a mean to meet the budget of what they're attempting to do for the kingdom. All that needs to happen is everyone get in their place and give like they're supposed to, not just according to the routine act but to the principle of the act [obedience, worship, faithful]. We must even get to a point that if God don't release it like I want him to, I will yet commit to the principle. That's what God blesses! Saints must see the vision God has given for the ministry they're under and submit to that vision even financially. Sometimes, our prayers need to be "God increase my finances not for me only, but for the work of the kingdom for I know that you've called your people to finance the vision. You've given us the power to get wealth so help me to tap that power so that I can use it for your glory". Some of you may disagree and that's okay. I'm learning that God journeys us in our walk with God and some things we may not understand until God really show and convict us of the principle. I can only try to show you, but it's your choice if you walk in it. It's just like God. He really doesn't beat us over the head with nothing. He gives us opportunity to walk through a door and if you choose to, you will get the benefits in due season. You're not made to do it, but the door is there to walk through if you want. |
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Post by Beulah5 on Jan 26, 2006 10:07:36 GMT -5
It would supprise many that most people who dont actually tithe tend to be some of the biggest givers in church. The fact of the matter is there are people who dont tithe who are still mightily blessed of God. ATT go sit down somewhere-this is not jailbreak u know  |
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Post by lanl ns on Jan 26, 2006 10:54:47 GMT -5
What I don't understand is this; since we have all this "enlightment" on tithes / giving then why are African American church folks at the "lowest" socio economic level in America?
sidenote: "most of these people give their ALL to the church, especially the elderly"
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, I'll leave it for another time.
