Can't Tithe; Can't Join

[keita nsi]

jasmine said:

I am for tithing, however I dont let post like this get under my skin. Its just a conversation we all our having. I dont think any one is angry.

Amen.

I said what I said..and I stand by it.

Me too.

Even though you are giving over and beyond 10% with your offering, it can still be considered a "tithe and an offering" but you don't call it as such.

I think this is much deeper than an issue of semantics. I don't think it's even scripturally possible to "give" (which is a voluntary act) tithes. The bible clearly distinguishes between tithes (which were were never money anyway) which were "paid" in compliance with the law, and offerings which are freely "given". Certainly, someone choosing to erroneously call some portion of my offering a tithe does not make it so.

keita wrote:

on behalf of all the black folks past and present who could expertly teach a course on how to make $1.00 out of .$99, and then squeeze it 'til it cries real tears, please be careful with the generalizations and stereotypes. (That's my Bill Cosby smilie, LOL!)

We can call it stereotypical, but it is a proven fact that most african americans think like consumers. Why do we think commercials are geared like they are? There have been many days where I have made my dollar stretch. Bill Cosby is the main one talk about AA. come on now ..LOL

My statement was just a cautionary one and the use of questionable language like "it is a proven fact that most african americans think like consumers." would just reinforce the need for it. But that's just the researcher in me. As I said earlier, I absolutely agree that way too many of us do think that way regarding money.

The Bill Cosby remark was a joke, Jas!

[ybrown]

What was the purpose of the Mosaic Law?

What is the purpose of the Ten Commandments?

[keita nsi]

To argue and push the issue of NT believers having to tithe is just like pushing the issue of one not worshipping on the sabbath and violating the 4th commandment (i believe its the 4th) of God by not observing the sabbath in its entirety.

Not at all:

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Now that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish!

[keita]

ybrown said:

What was the purpose of the Mosaic Law?

What is the purpose of the Ten Commandments?

Good questions, ybrown, and I love your use of "was" and "is".

[lanl ns]

ybrown said:

What was the purpose of the Mosaic Law?

What is the purpose of the Ten Commandments?

Something I found at bible.org for reference in regards to your questions:

The Nature and Content of the Mosaic Law:

It is common to divide the Mosaic Law into three parts as illustrated below, but though this is helpful for analysis and the study of the Mosaic Law and the way it functions, such a division is never stated as such in Scripture. Rather it is seen as a unit. Arguments for this will be given below.

Part 1: The Moral Law or the Ten Commandments. This part of the Law governed the moral life giving guidance to Israel in principles of right and wrong in relation to God and man (Exodus 20:1-17).

Part 2: The Judgments, or the Social Law. This part of the Law governed Israel in her secular, social, political, and economic life (Exodus 21:1–23:13).

Part 3: The Ordinances or the Ceremonial Law. This was the religious portion of Law which guided and provided for Israel in her worship and spiritual relationship and fellowship with God. It included the priesthood, tabernacle and sacrifices (Exodus 25:-31: Leviticus).


BTW: I like the way you "verbalized" (was/ is) your questions as well!

[auneeqsol]

GDD, all im saying is , if tithing is such a requirement for the NT believers today then why isnt it repeated in the NT? Have you ever heard the OT concealed is the NT revealed? Everything in the OT will reflect on the NT in some type of way.

In this instance, about tithing, and all the peace offerings, and heave offerings, and meat offerings, and sin offerings, we see here in the NT under the New covenant a more excellent way. The law of love says to give unto God of your substance, but remembering if you give sparingly thats how you will get back, if you give bountifully that's how you will get back as well, the choice is up to you. And see that will bring it back to having a personal relationship with God, and you loving God, as opposed to how they did it in the OT , they were really threatened by the consequence of not giving, they would be cursed. So whether they had a relationship with God and loved him or not, they would give out of command and formality, their heart didnt even have to be in it. But God says in the NT he loves a cheerful giver because that will reflect the nature of your heart, and how much you do love the things of God.

Now if you can tithe and then seperate your offering to the side cheerfully then more power to you, but others choose to just give freely with no stipulations of the tenth!.Because its all going to the house of God anyway.
And we have to remember the tithe was to support the levitical priests, because they had no inheritance, so to not tithe was just like robbing God because these were God's servants standing in his place concerning atoning for the ppl's sins,and to not tithe was like depriving them of what was due to them. So concerning issues like these it's good to know the reasons why.

[ybrown]

lanl said:

ybrown said:

What was the purpose of the Mosaic Law?

What is the purpose of the Ten Commandments?

Something I found at bible.org for reference in regards to your questions:

The Nature and Content of the Mosaic Law:

It is common to divide the Mosaic Law into three parts as illustrated below, but though this is helpful for analysis and the study of the Mosaic Law and the way it functions, such a division is never stated as such in Scripture. Rather it is seen as a unit. Arguments for this will be given below.

Part 1: The Moral Law or the Ten Commandments. This part of the Law governed the moral life giving guidance to Israel in principles of right and wrong in relation to God and man (Exodus 20:1-17).

Part 2: The Judgments, or the Social Law. This part of the Law governed Israel in her secular, social, political, and economic life (Exodus 21:1–23:13).

Part 3: The Ordinances or the Ceremonial Law. This was the religious portion of Law which guided and provided for Israel in her worship and spiritual relationship and fellowship with God. It included the priesthood, tabernacle and sacrifices (Exodus 25:-31: Leviticus).

But what's the purpose of them?

[auneeqsol]

Quote:Not at all:

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Well I guess the whole thing that I believe everyone is missing is found right here in verse 17.

All of these things which some were commandments at one time in the OT under the old covenant, were a shadow of things to come . But the body is of Christ. We are under a new covenant, which shows a more excellent way of looking at things, not by legalistic rules or standards, or stipulations and regulations, but of love. Having the love of God through his Holy Spirit will cause you to fulfill God's statutes over a beyond the call, because of the great love you have in your heart to please God with pure motives.

I dont know im just wondering does everyone see that. The law was our school master meaning it pointed the way , but now we have a more excellent way. We follow the law of love. To love thy neighbor as thyself, and to love the Lord God with all your heart, mind and strength (some sccounts quote it different) Jesus said on these 2 things hang ALL the law and the prophets.

[ybrown]

auneeqsol said:

GDD, all im saying is , if tithing is such a requirement for the NT believers today then why isnt it repeated in the NT? Have you ever heard the OT concealed is the NT revealed? Everything in the OT will reflect on the NT in some type of way.

Thank you for the perfect segue into my next post. You're absolutely correct!

Here is a breakdown of the Mosaic Law/Old Covenant in the OT vs. The New Covenant in the NT, along with the scriptures pertaining to each item:

Mosaic Covenant.....................................New Covenant

Old covenant II Cor. 3:14.........................New covenant II Cor. 3:6
First covenant Heb. 8:7, 9:1.........................Second covenant Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9
Came by Moses John 1:17.........................Came by Christ Heb. 8:6, 9:15
Law of Moses Acts 13:38-39.........................Law of Christ Gal. 6:2
Law of sin Rom. 7:5-6.........................Law of righteousness Rom. 9:30-31
Law of the flesh Rom. 7:5-6.........................Law of the Spirit Rom. 8:2
Not of faith Gal. 3:2.........................Law of faith Rom. 3:27
Yoke of bondage Gal. 5:1.........................Law of liberty Jam. 1:25
Ended by Christ Rom. 10:4.........................Established by Christ Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Law of death II Cor. 3:7 .........................Law of life Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Entangles Gal. 5:1.........................Makes free John 8:32, 36
A shadow Col. 2:14-17.........................The reality Heb. 10:1-18
Fulfilled Mat. 5:17-18.........................Now in force Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Leaves imperfect Heb. 7:19.........................Makes perfect Heb. 7:19
Glorious II Cor. 3:7.........................More glorious II Cor. 3:8-10
Powerless to save Heb. 9:9, 10:4.........................Saves to uttermost Heb. 7:25
Many sacrifices Heb. 9:12-13.........................One sacrifice for sin Heb. 10:12
Temporary priest Heb. 7:23.........................Eternal priest Heb. 7:17
Remembers sins Heb. 10:3.........................Forgets sins Heb. 8:12, 10:17
Yearly atonement Heb. 10:3.........................Eternal atonement Heb. 10:14
Priests have sin Heb. 5:1-4.........................Sinless priest Heb. 7:26
Aaronic priesthood >Heb. 7:11.........................Melchisedec priesthood Heb. 5:5-10, 7:21
Out of Levi Heb 7:11.........................Out of Judah Heb. 7:14
Animal sacrifices Heb. 9:12.........................Human sacrifice Heb. 9:14-28
Earthly tabernacle Heb. 9:2.........................Heavenly tabernacle Heb. 8:2
Imperfect mediator Gal. 3:19.........................Sinless mediator I Tim. 2:5
No inheritance Rom. 4:13.........................Eternal inheritance Heb. 9:15
Instituted upon animal blood Heb. 9:16-22.........................Instituted upon blood of Christ Mat. 26-28
Law of works Rom. 3:27.........................Law of grace and faith John 1:17
Works wrath Rom. 4:15.........................Saves from wrath Rom. 5:9
Non-redeeming Heb. 10:4.........................Redeems Gal. 3:13, Heb. 9:12-15
Non-pleasing Ps. 40:6.........................Pleasing to God Heb 10:5-18
Abolishment predicted Is. 51:6.........................Establishment predicted Heb. 8:7
Circumcision Ex. 12:48.........................No circumcision Rom. 4:9-12
Made to change Heb. 7:12, Gal. 3:25.........................Made eternal Heb. 13:20
Faulty Heb. 8:7.......................................Perfect James 1:25
Weak Heb. 7:18....................................Strong Heb. 7:25
Unprofitable Heb. 7:18 ..............................Profitable Heb. 7:19,25
Natural program Heb. 9:10-14.........................Spiritual program II Cor. 3:6, 18
Daily program Heb. 7:27.........................Finished program Heb. 10:10-18
Infirm high priests Heb. 5:2, 7:28.........................Perfect high priest Heb. 7:26
Made priests by law Heb. 7:12, 28.........................Made priests by an oath Heb. 7:21, 28
No salvation Heb. 10:2-4.........................Eternal salvation Heb. 5:9, 10:10
Perfected nothing Heb. 7:19.........................Perfects believers Heb. 7:19, 10:14
Earthly priests Heb. 5:1-4.........................Heavenly priest Heb. 9:24, 10:12
Repeated inability Heb. 10:11.........................Glorious success Heb. 10:10-18
Many offerings Heb. 9:7.........................One offering Heb. 10:10-14
Good promises Dt. 28:1-14.........................Better promises Heb. 8:6
A good covenant Rom 7:12.........................A better covenant Heb. 7:22, 8:6
Many high priests Heb. 7:23.........................One high priest Heb. 7:24-28
Typical tabernacle Heb. 9.........................True tabernacle Heb. 8:2, 9:11
No mercy Heb. 10:28.........................Complete mercy Heb. 8:12
Handmade things Heb. 9:1-5, 24.........................Not handmade Heb. 9:23-24
An old way Heb. 8:13.........................New and living way Heb. 10:19-20
Unavailing ministers Heb. 7:18.........................Able ministers II Cor. 3:6
Carnal ministry Heb. 9:9-10.........................Spiritual ministry II Cor. 3:6
Ministration of condemnation II Cor. 3:9.........................Ministration of righteousness II Cor. 3:9
Glory covered II Cor. 3:13.........................Glory uncovered II Cor. 3:18
Brings bondage Gal. 4:24-25.........................Brings liberty II Cor. 3:17
Cannot justify Gal. 2:16.........................Does justify Acts 13:38-39
Brings a curse Gal. 3:10.........................Redeems from the curse Gal. 3:13
Live by works Gal 3:10.........................Live by faith Gal. 3:11
Cannot give life Gal. 3:21.........................Does give life John 6:63-68
Exposes sin Gal 3:19.........................Covers sin Rom. 4:1-8
Under law Rom 6:14-15.........................Under grace Gal. 3:22-25
Done away II Cor. 3:7-14.........................Not done away II Cor. 3:11
Abolished II Cor. 3:13.........................Continues glorious II Cor. 3:11
Ministry of death II Cor. 3:7.........................Reconciliation ministry II Cor. 5:18
For Israel only Dt. 4:7-8, 5:3.........................For all men Luke 22:20, Mark 14:24

[And Such Were Some Of You]

Thanks, ybrown, for that - I will have to print & study for my own personal use. As I was sitting here reading this thread a "thought" came to me:

Doesn't EVERYTHING in the Old Testament point to (a shadow of) Christ, who came to fulfill? (Including the tithe) And if so, then some of us are truly missing it.

[Giants DO Die]

auneeqsol said:

GDD, all im saying is , if tithing is such a requirement for the NT believers today then why isnt it repeated in the NT? Have you ever heard the OT concealed is the NT revealed? Everything in the OT will reflect on the NT in some type of way.

In this instance, about tithing, and all the peace offerings, and heave offerings, and meat offerings, and sin offerings, we see here in the NT under the New covenant a more excellent way. The law of love says to give unto God of your substance, but remembering if you give sparingly thats how you will get back, if you give bountifully that's how you will get back as well, the choice is up to you. And see that will bring it back to having a personal relationship with God, and you loving God, as opposed to how they did it in the OT , they were really threatened by the consequence of not giving, they would be cursed. So whether they had a relationship with God and loved him or not, they would give out of command and formality, their heart didnt even have to be in it. But God says in the NT he loves a cheerful giver because that will reflect the nature of your heart, and how much you do love the things of God.

Now if you can tithe and then seperate your offering to the side cheerfully then more power to you, but others choose to just give freely with no stipulations of the tenth!.Because its all going to the house of God anyway.
And we have to remember the tithe was to support the levitical priests, because they had no inheritance, so to not tithe was just like robbing God because these were God's servants standing in his place concerning atoning for the ppl's sins,and to not tithe was like depriving them of what was due to them. So concerning issues like these it's good to know the reasons why.

Does the NT reteach every single aspect of the OT. No it does not. We seem to have this mindset that the NT was for the Gentiles when the FIRST believer were NOT Gentiles they were Jews.

And once again someone focuses on the CURSE yet again. I have posted in detail the BLESSINGS several times and people keep bringing up the CURSE..

Doesnt that strike you as strange or interesting

Why is there an assumption that one cannot tithe and give offering cheerfully unto the Lord. Personally I enjoy tithing. I forgot my checkbook at home last Sunday was was like DAG !!! because I enjoy blessing and honoring God and His word.

And why do we act like we have two bibles and not ONE coherent word of God that is not in opposition to one another.??

See I dont see tithing as bondage or oppression. I see it as honoring GOD and HIS Word. My desire is that people be delivered from the mindset and false teaching and honor GOD and expect GOD to bless you because of your obedience to HIM and HIS Word by giving Him HIS Tithe ( not the church tithes or the priests tithes but HIS Tithe ).

[ybrown]

I think everyone agrees and recognizes that there are blessings to giving. The points of contention lie in whether or not the giving is:

a tithe vs. giving back
voluntary vs. mandatory
10% vs. no set amt.
curse on non tithers vs. no curse

[auneeqsol]

GDD said:
Why is there an assumption that one cannot tithe and give offering cheerfully unto the Lord. Personally I enjoy tithing. I forgot my checkbook at home last Sunday was was like DAG !!! because I enjoy blessing and honoring God and His word.

I specifically said:
Now if you can tithe and then seperate your offering to the side cheerfully then more power to you, but others choose to just give freely with no stipulations of the tenth!.Because its all going to the house of God anyway.


So really I am agreeing that you can still tithe and be a cheerful giver. It's just that there is a stipulation. THE TENTH!!!

Now check out this scenario:

You get your check, okay you have rent to pay and car note, but you take out a TENTH and then an offering to give. Now while at church before service a sister or brother comes to you and tells you of a need that he/she has and they ask you for $50 dollars to be a blessing to them. But if you give that $50 to them then your TITHES and offering will be short, actually that will completely wipe out your "free-will" offering and snub off a portion of your "TENTH". NOw offering time rolls around , what do you do? Do you :

A-Give to the need of the sister/brother, and be a blessing in deed and not word only, and still have some left over to give FREELY and CHEERFULLY

OR

B-Tell them that you dont have it to give to help them and that you will be praying for them because you must put God first, so that you won't be out of the will of God concerning your giving to the Lord, and Willingly and Freely give the TENTH then the offering you have to give.


Now let's think about this, WWJD?

Lemme know what ya think....

And then I'll Show you what Jesus did do......

[Jasmine]

auneeqsol said:

GDD said:

Now check out this scenario:

You get your check, okay you have rent to pay and car note, but you take out a TENTH and then an offering to give. Now while at church before service a sister or brother comes to you and tells you of a need that he/she has and they ask you for $50 dollars to be a blessing to them. But if you give that $50 to them then your TITHES and offering will be short, actually that will completely wipe out your "free-will" offering and snub off a portion of your "TENTH". NOw offering time rolls around , what do you do? Do you :

Ok you write a check for your tithes and offerings and give the brother/sister $50.00 in cash. Just because you have mortage and car note to pay, don't mean your broke.

[Giants DO Die ns]

jasmine said:

auneeqsol said:

GDD said:

Now check out this scenario:

You get your check, okay you have rent to pay and car note, but you take out a TENTH and then an offering to give. Now while at church before service a sister or brother comes to you and tells you of a need that he/she has and they ask you for $50 dollars to be a blessing to them. But if you give that $50 to them then your TITHES and offering will be short, actually that will completely wipe out your "free-will" offering and snub off a portion of your "TENTH". NOw offering time rolls around , what do you do? Do you :

Ok you write a check for your tithes and offerings and give the brother/sister $50.00 in cash. Just because you have mortage and car note to pay, don't mean your broke.

I give my tithe and I give my offering and I ask the Lord about what to do concerning this individual. Its that simple. Because while they might ask me to be a blessing to them I might not be the person GOD wants to use.