Can't Tithe; Can't Join

[nina]

Backing up a few posts:
Didn't Paul say that the Law was perfect but that with Jesus we have the assurance of a superior covenant?
Was the Law for the Jews only?
Is the new covenant for the new testament believers only?
I am just asking... If we give unto God, out of our love for Him and for our "neighbour", isn't He pleased regardless of what we call it?

[ybrown]

Giants said:

I give my tithe and I give my offering and I ask the Lord about what to do concerning this individual. Its that simple. Because while they might ask me to be a blessing to them I might not be the person GOD wants to use.

Would your answer change if the money was needed for food, clothing or shelter?

[Giants DO Die ns]

ybrown said:

Giants said:

I give my tithe and I give my offering and I ask the Lord about what to do concerning this individual. Its that simple. Because while they might ask me to be a blessing to them I might not be the person GOD wants to use.

Would your answer change if the money was needed for food, clothing or shelter?

Nope I would seek God ALWAYS as the Word instruicts me to.

Lean not to your own understand but in ALL your ways acknowledge Him and HE will direct your path.

And I have had God have me sow money, food and clothing into people lives. The key for me is always asking the Lord HIS will.

In fact I remember one time the Lord had me send money to a couple I knew over the internet that never asked me for a dime yet they were in dire financial need and I wasnt making much money myself and God said send them $200.00 cash overnight in the mail. They needed exactly $200.00 to keep the lights and the heat on for their house with their children.

I remember the Lord telling me one day to give a perfectly good coat to a homeless man that was across the street from my house. I had given the man a few dollars and I heard the Lord say, Let the man that has two coats give to the man that has none.

Well I had a perfectly good winter coat and came downstairs looking for the man and found him coming out the store. I told him that Jesus told me to give him this coat. He almost started crying. He said he had been praying to the Lord to help him survive because he had just gotten a job and they were placing im in an apartent but it wouldnt be ready for a few days and he didnt want to stay in the shelter because it was dangerous. He said I know I could make it on the street for 2 days but it was getting cold and he asked the Lord for help to survive the cold.

I have had the desire to bless someone or give them something and have had God tell me NO dont give. Sometimes its because they would have done something harmful to themselves. Sometimes its because GOD has already orchestrated a means to bless that didnt include me.

So for me its always in ALL giving a matter of giving what GOD and when GOD tells me to.

Owner of nothing, Steward over all.

[lanl ns]

ybrown said:

In both instances, Abraham and Jacob gave freely and voluntarily. Abraham to Melchizedek, presumably as an expression of gratitude to God for enabling him to rescue Lot who had been taken captive.

This is the only tithe mentioned in Scripture that Abraham ever gave and there is no evidence that his tithing was his general practice. In addition, this tithe came from the spoils of victory that he acquired by military might.

With regards to Jacob and his dream about the ladder, God made a promise to Jacob that He would be with him, and keep him wherever he would go and bring him back to the land. In response, Jacob vowed that if God kept his promise, he in turn would give God a tenth.

Again, we have to observe exactly what the text does and does not say. Nowhere are we told that God commanded Jacob to give Him a tithe. And again, along with Abraham's example, it appears that the giving of this tithe was voluntary on Jacob's part. These two examples are the ONLY examples of tithing to be found in the Old Testament before the Law was given.

However, those tithes are very different from the tithes under the Mosaic Law. The tithing system under the law was NOT voluntary and was required by God, no if, ands, or buts about it. It wasn’t just a tenth. When we read that over-emphasized Malachi passage very carefully and in the context in which it was written, it says:

Malachi 3:8-12: "Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed Thee?' In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you! Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows. Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it may not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes, says the Lord of hosts. And all the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land, says the Lord of hosts."

Here we are told that by withholding tithes a man is actually robbing God. Basically its saying that he is withholding something which is not his own, but really belongs to God. Under the Old Covenant, tithing was mandatory and to withhold it was to become a thief.

Notice also that God says the people were robbing him in "tithes." It does not say "the tithe", but in "tithes" (plural). These "tithes" refer to ALL the different tithes required of God's people (Levite Tithe, Festival Tithe, Poor Tithe). In addition, that passage doesn’t just say tithes, but “tithes and offerings.” These offerings refer to the offerings specified in Leviticus 1-5, such as the burnt offering, grain offering, peace offering, sin offering, and guilt offering. These offerings were constituted primarily of animal sacrifices.

Now, an important question surfaces at this point. Why is it that we recognize animal sacrifices to be obsolete under the New Covenant, but not tithing? If we are obligated and required to pay tithes today as in the OT, then certainly we are still obligated to offer animal sacrifices. God lumps them both together and says that His people were robbing Him by withholding both of them.

And Giants, you’re right, we can't decide to pick and choose what the follow and what not to follow in the bible. That also goes for this issue. Either we must offer both tithes (all of them, which some calculate to be about 33%, not just 10%) and animal sacrifices (offerings) or both these gifts as stated in the OT have been abolished by Jesus’ fulfillment of the Mosaic Law.

YBrown, you may have answered my question as to why AA Christains are some of the poorest people in America?

We practice the principle of tithing but we are lacking about 23% in our giving.........

You may be on to something, we better start herding up some rams, goats and sheep ;D (sorry had to go there)

[Nikkol]

We (general) know that the OT was a shadow of the NT by which Jesus came to fulfil.


The Law --- Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law

Sacrifices -- Jesus fulfilled by dying on the cross for our sins and became the supreme sacrifice.

Tithes -- Jesus fulfilled this when ________________________

[lanl ns]

electladynb said:

We (general) know that the OT was a shadow of the NT by which Jesus came to fulfil.


The Law --- Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law

Sacrifices -- Jesus fulfilled by dying on the cross for our sins and became the supreme sacrifice.

Tithes -- Jesus fulfilled this when ________________________

Jesus is the supreme sacrifice, aren't tithe/offerings considered sacrifices unto God?

[And Such Were Some Of You]

electladynb said:

We (general) know that the OT was a shadow of the NT by which Jesus came to fulfil.


The Law --- Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law

Sacrifices -- Jesus fulfilled by dying on the cross for our sins and became the supreme sacrifice.

Tithes -- Jesus fulfilled this when ________________________

LOL, I will not even touch this!!!! It is simply too easy.

[Jasmine nsi]

lanl said:

electladynb said:

We (general) know that the OT was a shadow of the NT by which Jesus came to fulfil.


The Law --- Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law

Sacrifices -- Jesus fulfilled by dying on the cross for our sins and became the supreme sacrifice.

Tithes -- Jesus fulfilled this when ________________________

Jesus is the supreme sacrifice, aren't tithe/offerings considered sacrifices unto God?

Praise can also be considered a sacrifice, however the bible commanded, Let everything that have breath Praise the Lord. Whether you want to or not, an order has been given.

[lanl ns]

I have a question:

If there is not proof that Tithing existed before the law (during Adam/ Eve time who were not under the law) than why is it so hard to believe that tithing is not for the NT believer who are no longer under the law?

[lanl ns]

I found something interesting in Leviticus regarding tithes and is gives specifics as to who is able and who is not able to tithe:

Leviticus 27: 30 – 33 (NIV)

30 " 'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. 31 If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 The entire tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod—will be holy to the LORD. 33 He must not pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If he does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.'

I have a question based on the above scripture; it is shown that only a person (man) who had 10 or more animals could tithe:

According to the law if a man had 7 animals to pass under the shepherds’ rod he was exempt from tithes, because only the tenth animal could be offered for tithes.

Also, only men could tithe and not women; when did the law change that women were suppose to tithe?

[ybrown]

Giants said:

ybrown said:

Would your answer change if the money was needed for food, clothing or shelter?

Nope I would seek God ALWAYS as the Word instruicts me to.

Lean not to your own understand but in ALL your ways acknowledge Him and HE will direct your path.

That's the danger of trying to uphold Mosaic Law. Jesus said if you feed and clothe someone in His name, you've also done it unto Him.

James 2: 15 - 16 says, “If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?”

Tithing in the Mosaic Law was about providing for the Temple. I just want to remind you that that Temple that the Jews used to tithe to and support, no longer stands. We are now that Temple, so giving to someone in which the Holy Spirit resides is still giving unto the Kingdom.

How would you know that God didn't send that person to you? Do you really have to pray about giving someone $20 for food or clothing? That's covered in the Logos: provide for the poor. Rhema isn't necessary to provide water to someone who's thirsty, food to a hungry person, or a coat to someone who's cold.

WE are the Temple.

Providing food for someone is almost in the same category as moving to save a child that's in front of a speeding train. You don't have to pray about it, you just do it and God will take care of and sort out the rest.

electladynb said:

We (general) know that the OT was a shadow of the NT by which Jesus came to fulfil.

The Law --- Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law

Sacrifices -- Jesus fulfilled by dying on the cross for our sins and became the supreme sacrifice.

Tithes -- Jesus fulfilled this when ________________________

Romans 10:4: For Christ is the end of the law

Where the law ends, Christ begins. The law ends with representative sacrifices; Christ begins with the real offering.

The annulment of the Mosaic Law was total in nature. As the writer reminds us, the giving of the New Covenant "has made the first obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13).

Why are you holding onto only part of this law? In reality, the real tithe AND offering amounted to 33%. Why just talk about a 10%?

Righteousness is not tied to this Mosaic Law. That's how the Pharisees thought and Jesus corrected them.

[Nikkol]

Still..... how did Christ fulfil tithing?


Either way, it appears that most here give at least 10% of their income so does it really matter?

[And Such Were Some Of You]

electladynb said:

Still..... how did Christ fulfil tithing?


Either way, it appears that most here give at least 10% of their income so does it really matter?

Yes, it matters if one tries to hold another in bondage to it.

[Jasmine nsi]

ybrown,

So are you saying that anyone that has approached you and asked for money, you have never consulted God regarding the matter? We need money for alot of things food, water, clothing, shelter being at the top of the list.

Even if GOD sent the person to you, Don't you also believe that God will also inform you that this person needs to be blessed by you financially?

[Nikkol]

andsuchweresomeofu said:

electladynb said:

Still..... how did Christ fulfil tithing?


Either way, it appears that most here give at least 10% of their income so does it really matter?

Yes, it matters if one tries to hold another in bondage to it.

But tithing should never equal bondage..... it seems more like a "reasonable service". Why would someone desire to be a member of a church, have a job, and not want to give to the ministry?