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Post by Beck on May 31, 2006 9:32:57 GMT -5
Please expound Keita, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying..it sounds "deep" though....LOL Actually its not that deep when you consider the fruit in today's churches. |
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Post by auneeqsol on May 31, 2006 10:28:11 GMT -5
LOL ......I was trying to sound "churchy" when i said that....lol
You know how people are in church "oooh that was deep"...LOL
So what's the difference between the church and the Body of Christ?
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Post by Beck on May 31, 2006 10:32:53 GMT -5
LOL ......I was trying to sound "churchy" when i said that....lol You know how people are in church "oooh that was deep"...LOL So what's the difference between the church and the Body of Christ? LOL!! you got the church lingo down pact!! There is no difference between the church and the body. I think what keita is saying is the fruit that the "today's church" is giving doesnt match up with the Gospel message. |
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Post by auneeqsol on May 31, 2006 11:19:59 GMT -5
So does anyone have any examples of some ways or practices that we have strayed from as of the Early Church?
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Post by ybrown on May 31, 2006 12:27:15 GMT -5
There's been a huge paradigm or pyramid shift, literally. Today, the pyramid is standing such that a lot of people are supporting one person, when back in the times of Paul, it was the other way around.
Those who taught the word were merely teachers. It was a function just like evangelist, preacher, minister, etc. Everyone had a function and no one position or person was exalted over the others.
Everyone was a servant and served everyone else, instead of today where very few are walking in their own gifts or functions and everyone is trying to break their backs to serve a leader. In the very early church, there was no one designated leader of each ekklesia or church because everyone took part in the services and got the opportunity to execrcise their God-given gifts. The closest thing that came to leaders were the elders, and even then they supported and looked after the laity.
It was much more free flowing and everyone was walking in what God ordained them to be or do.
If the churches back then were like they are today, the minute Jesus got up to speak publically for the first time, church security would jump Him, wrestle Him to the ground and carry Him out in the hallway and proceed to explain how He is not to disturb the service and the man of god or otherwise be escorted out and never return again.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on May 31, 2006 15:04:03 GMT -5
Does The First Century Church Exist Today?
by Jim O'Connor "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18 A twentieth century reader, discovering this passage in the Bible for the first time, may have questions generated by what the Lord Jesus said. Did he build his church? If so, when? Does it exist today? If so, how and where? If it does exist, can I be a member of it? Did He Build His Church?The answer to the first question is a strong "YES". Jesus does not make empty promises. If we think he does, then the scriptures — the Bible — become useless to us and we can have no confidence in anything he said. He doesn't make empty promises for he built the church as he promised to build. The church was establishes in the city of Jerusalem on the first Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus. Read the second chapter of Acts for confirmation of this. Thereafter the church is spoken of as an existing, functioning, growing institution. It was blood bought (Acts 20:28), loved (Ephesians 5:25); Spirit inhabited (1 Corinthians 3:16); persecuted (Acts 8:1); suffered for (Colossians 1:24); praised (1 Thessalonians 1:3); comforted (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9); and warned (Revelation 2:5). It was not a Jesus of Nazareth fan club, nor was it a social club with religious rules. It was the body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22-23), consisting of the saved (Acts 2:47), called the household of God (Ephesians 2:19), and existing for the grand purpose of preaching and serving that God might be glorified (1 Peter 4:11; Matthew 5:16). Does This Church Exist Today?Certainly it does! Does Jesus still live? Yes, he does (Hebrews 7:25; Revelation 1:18). Does his blood still cleanse? Yes, it does (1 John 1:7; Hebrews 10:12). Does he still reign? Yes, he does (Hebrews 13:5). Do we still have his word? Yes, we do (Matthew 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25). Let me emphasize once again that the answer to all of the above questions is a very strong YES! And since we have all of the above YES answers, we again affirm that the church which Jesus established in the first century can, and does, exist in the twentieth century. Where Is This Church?It can exist anywhere and everywhere that the pure word of God is preached (Luke 8:11), and is faithfully followed (2 John 9). It knows no racial, social, or gender boundaries (Galatians 3:28, for "God is no respecter of persons; but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him" (Acts 10:34-35). Can I Be A Member Of It?Certainly! Anyone can! In fact, God wants everyone, in every nation, to be a member of it (Mark 16:15; Matthew 28:19; Ephesians 1:10). If you do what people in the first century did to become a Christian (Acts 2:38-41); and do what they did to remain faithful (1 John 1:7; 3 John 2-3), then it follows that you will be what they were and have what they have. The New Testament scriptures reveal to us the nature, organization, worship, work and purpose of the church. The scriptures have not changed nor have the afore-mentioned things concerning the church changed. Not only is man not authorized to make any changes, he is sternly warned against doing so (Galatians 1:6-9; Revelation 22:18-19). Any changes made in teaching concerning the purpose of/for the church causes it to cease to be the Lord's church. It then becomes the church of the man or men who made the changes. A changed, counterfeit church will not prosper at judgment (Matthew 15:9-14). Some will ridicule the idea of a first century church in the twentieth century. However, those who do so, do not understand the first century church nor do they understand the needs of twentieth century man. Progress, so called, has not brought a change in man's needs. We still need direction (Jeremiah 10:23; Proverbs 14:12), forgiveness (Isaiah 59:1-2; Romans 3:10,23), comfort (2 Corinthians 1:3-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:18), hope (1 Corinthians 15:19). WE STILL NEED CHRIST!! We dare not seek to "modernize" the church of Christ to fit modern man; nor should we follow those who are seeking to do so. One cannot "update" that which is never out of date. Study the Bible, obey what it tells you to do, and rejoice at being a part of a church that isn't subject to the whims of an unstable society. Does The First Century Church Exist Today? by Jim O'Connor © 1993
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on May 31, 2006 15:11:07 GMT -5
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G3
Full Member
Let The Holy Ghost Show You The Way
Posts: 158
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Post by G3 on Jun 1, 2006 10:31:23 GMT -5
Here on this thread we have various initiators and respondors with sincere inquiries and convictions on this very serious matter. Some approach this issue with a non-chalant approach while others are burden deeply with it. I know of a certainty that this issue is very, very serious and is at the heart of the Father. That's why there are those whose hearts He moved upon concerning this matter and are addressing this through the Word of God whether it's through prophesies, teachings and intercessory because they have stirred their soul in the urgency of the spirit because of their consuming zeal and concern for the House of God.
This is not an issue of thoughts to be tossed to and fro, but as the "kingdom of God" allows the "Fearless and Couragous" to enter into this holy ground and to take by unwavering faith the things of the Kingdom of God to bring back to the people of God so they may choose this day in whom they shall serve. The True and Living God. Or the the traditions of man and the doctrine of devils (the twisting and manipulation of the Word to fit their religions).
Take a look around and notice the various topics that are being discussed. Though they may differ in introductions they all are simular if not identical in the heart of the issue. THE GREAT APOSTASY OR FALLING AWAY of the church. Yes, we are in the last days and we see the man, or the so called man of God, the lover of themselves and the "glory" of their ministries more than a lover of God and the magnification of His name. For if man loved God more than himself he would sacrafice his own life for the pursuit of the Truth of God at all cost. But we do not see that. We that are teachers and examples in the body are held accountable for concealing Truth through in silence and false teaching.
If this issue is a burden in you spirit and you know weekly you live in hypocracy because you do not want to disturb the balance of where you fellowship or with whom you fellowship with. My prayer for you is this, that you seek whole heartedly the face of the Father for peace and joy because you know what is truth and that truth has set you free(concealed truth will do great harm, it must be released). That you may count up the cost of what is counted as lost may they be family, associates or place of worship so that you may gain the Father's favor and strenght in the name of Yeshua.
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Post by keita on Jun 1, 2006 17:05:41 GMT -5
O! Hallelujah!!!!
O I Thank You, FATHER!
Thank you for every word of
CLARITY...
COURAGE...
CONFIRMATION...
CONVICTION...
and CONSOLATION...
Ah now we could just stop... and start right there!
YESHUA!!!!!!!!!
No other name...
BLESS HIS NAME[/b]!!!
Oh I know that There is YET a balm in Gilead!
And Bro G3, I hope Our Father rewards you real good for totin' that overflowing vat of it up in here this day.
Okay, I'm gonna go on back and try to catch up with the thread. ;)LOL!
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Post by krazeeboi on Jun 1, 2006 21:27:28 GMT -5
You still got some 'splainin' to do Keita.  |
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Post by auneeqsol on Jun 9, 2006 10:11:21 GMT -5
There's been a huge paradigm or pyramid shift, literally. Today, the pyramid is standing such that a lot of people are supporting one person, when back in the times of Paul, it was the other way around. Those who taught the word were merely teachers. It was a function just like evangelist, preacher, minister, etc. Everyone had a function and no one position or person was exalted over the others. Everyone was a servant and served everyone else, instead of today where very few are walking in their own gifts or functions and everyone is trying to break their backs to serve a leader. In the very early church, there was no one designated leader of each ekklesia or church because everyone took part in the services and got the opportunity to execrcise their God-given gifts. The closest thing that came to leaders were the elders, and even then they supported and looked after the laity. It was much more free flowing and everyone was walking in what God ordained them to be or do. If the churches back then were like they are today, the minute Jesus got up to speak publically for the first time, church security would jump Him, wrestle Him to the ground and carry Him out in the hallway and proceed to explain how He is not to disturb the service and the man of god or otherwise be escorted out and never return again. YBrown......I thank God for you bringing this point out. When we walked away from the original structure of how the church was set up then we started going down from there. I believe thats why churches are the way they are in some things ...stunted, in a power struggle, abusive, controlling etc. because we have stepped away from the original structure and have gotten off into our "own ideas" of what church was supposed to be. And I believe thats how the Lord feels at times like he has been escorted out because it didnt fit with the man/woman of God's agenda of the service. Church has turned into a one man's show, a platform for dictatorship and a world of confusion, and we know God is not the author of confusion. There are so many definitions of what we call "church". God had been dealing with me to study about the original structure of the church. Now of course God is not going to ban us from having church or service because its not exactly on key, but we might encounter a lot of problems because its not. It leaves room for our own way to get IN the way. That's why pride is such a big downfall for leaders in churches. The early church was set up to where Christ was the center of attention and we were just builders of the kingdom. |
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Post by inhishand on Jun 9, 2006 11:31:23 GMT -5
During the book of Acts.... and Apostle Paul ... They were trying to figure out how the set up the church themselves... All they knew was the Jewish tradition.... At first the original Apostles were doing everything... preaching, teaching and serving tables... When conflict begin to arise in the church, They had to make changes. They had to assign deacons to take over those areas of the ministry. As a result... The Word Increased.
It is true everybody were a servant and serve.... Today everybody should be a servant and serve.... everybody do not serve the same way.... Do you know that Pastors are servants, Apostles are servants..... You may not consider what they do as serving, but they are serving.
Apostle Paul, served when he traveled ministering to the Gentiles, when he trained, instructed and directed those who travel with him... When he wrote letters to churches. Each time he preach a sermon, he served.
Timothy and Titus were over leaders in their church. Paul instructed them to delegates bishops, elders and deacons in the position.... They did not delegated apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, why?.... Jesus is the one who gave those gifts to the church, not man.
Someone said a pastor don't lead or rule in the church, If I'm not mistaken.... I have to go back and read. I need a scripture that say pastors don't suppose to lead in the church. You can't pastor without leading and you can't lead without ruling. I believe everyone should have someone beside God, to answer to on this earth.
In His Hand
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Post by giantsdodie on Jun 9, 2006 12:11:43 GMT -5
I am sooooooooo glad I go to a church that has great leadership who are transparent, not afraid to admit when they make mistakes or when they missed God and are truly servants in the house of God.
Ive seen the bad.
Ive seen the ugly.
Ive seen the wrong.,
Ive seen the indifferent,.
God has shown me the right. The challenge for me is now that God is showing me the right way I am without excuse when its my turn.
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Post by auneeqsol on Jun 14, 2006 21:11:20 GMT -5
Actually as some have touched on before.....Pastors werent "the boss" of the church. The church was governed by a group of elders in which the pastor would be considered one, and they came together to make decisions for the greater good of the ministry/church. There were no hidden secrets as some have today, they probably didnt have a problem with having meetings concerning church finances, and they probably didnt have "too" many problems with power struggles among leadership in the church because there were no BIG I's and little u's.
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Post by anointedteacher on Jun 14, 2006 21:52:09 GMT -5
Actually as some have touched on before.....Pastors werent "the boss" of the church. The church was governed by a group of elders in which the pastor would be considered one, and they came together to make decisions for the greater good of the ministry/church. There were no hidden secrets as some have today, they probably didnt have a problem with having meetings concerning church finances, and they probably didnt have "too" many problems with power struggles among leadership in the church because there were no BIG I's and little u's. Where in the Bible it says the church were governed by a group of Elders.... and Pastor did not lead.... Who delegated and set elders in the church? MAN Who delegated and set Pastors in the church... JESUS... The first recorded business meeting did not include the congregation till after they came to a decision.. Acts 15:6 Apostles and Elders were together.... You have to understand the office and position of a pastor.... Psalm 23... is a good outline. Look at Moses and David.... Timothy and Titus were not only Apostles they pastored too... They delegated elders in their church. In the Book of Acts, you see nothing about pastors, why .... because the church was at an infant stage.... Bible tell us Jesus gave Pastors to the Church..... It is a calling that can't be desired and a gift to the Church, and an office. AT |
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