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Post by giantsdodie on Jun 2, 2006 8:27:33 GMT -5
Over the years I have seen a lot of talk on these boards about leadership and the church. What its doing and what its not doing. Some of the discussion have made valid points but often times leads to more questioning and dissecting and negativity. I have several questions that I just would like to pose and not necessarily to get and answer but to evoke thoughts and self examination, How many of us here are actually IN leadership? How many of us understand that leaders are human too and subject to the exact same faults that WE are ? How many of us are praying and interceding on a daily basis for our leadership that they draw closer to God and that HE bless them with wisdom to lead ? How many of us are turning over plates for them ? How many of us SEE the problem but do NOTHING about it ? How many of us are too busy not being what God called us to be so that we can be used of God to fix this mess ? How many of us have been hurt and victimized but havent been healed so it causes a backlash and a bitter spirit toward the church and leadership ? How many of us are staying in places God has told us to leave already because of comfort or tradition ? How many of us realize that many leaders unfortunately have been hurt, victimized and mislead as well and many times are acting and reacting out of their pain just like WE do ? How many of us " seers " are saying.. Lord what can I do to help ?? As my dad always said to me. Either you are part of the solution or you are a part of the problem. Which one are we  ? Think I am gonna have a talk with the Lord myself and find out what I can do better. Just food for thought and what was on my mind. |
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Post by hezsweetiknow on Jun 2, 2006 16:40:29 GMT -5
wow.
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 3, 2006 0:09:37 GMT -5
Actually we are all in leadership in one way or another. Each day we touch the lives of people that we see on a regular basis. Someone is watching our lives, our words, our actions, and how we regulate to our families each day. As believers in the Lord Jesus Christ; we make known our faith in him; whether it's ministering to your husbands, ministering to our children, working on our jobs, or whatever we do each day. These are people's lives that we touch everyday or at least 5 days a week. Even though many on this board maybe leaders in their local assemblies; that work does not stop there. GDD..you're right leaders have flaws as they are human and that's exceptable. I can only answer for myself..I have walked away from what was comfortable and tradition and walked into a place that challenged me to see past the emotional hype...to allow the pruning process to cut away the layers..and dig deeper than I wanted it to go. Taking it all in stride and learning that no matter what I go through that my Heavenly is always near; no matter how far away he seems to be..
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 3, 2006 11:33:28 GMT -5
The concerns I have with Leaders and leadership is that too many of us have forgotten the first and most important role of a leader and that is the role of a SERVANT....
We are in leadership when we should be in SERVANTSHIP!!!!!!
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Post by anointedteacher on Jun 3, 2006 13:35:41 GMT -5
Over the years I have seen a lot of talk on these boards about leadership and the church. What its doing and what its not doing. Some of the discussion have made valid points but often times leads to more questioning and dissecting and negativity. , I'm in leadership, I'm not a pastor, elder, deaconess or bishop... I SERVE in the area of teaching and accounting in the ministry. Yes... I know and understand that they are human and not infallible. I also understand that God choose and uses human with faults and place them right in ministry with those faults. The Word of God actually shows faults in some of the greatest biblical leaders and God put them into position and stamped His approval upon them. I can't say I pray daily, but I do pray for my leaders on regular basis that she and my new leader, he will grow closer to God and walk in all holiness and godly wisdom to lead and serve. Not Often as I should Sometime God will say "I'm on the Throne"...... sometime the only thing He require of me is to do is pray and keep my mouth shut about the issue. God have His Way in dealing with situation. Most of us will move in the flesh and do more harm than good and make a mess out of things. Most of us really need to first deal with our own mess, before we try to fix somebody else mess. The only thing some of us too busy doing, is being a busybody in seeing other people mess and too blind to see our own. Yes, I have been hurt and victimized by leadership.... It is time to get up forgive and move on.... and stop being a victim. Some of us think that God going to pick us up and carry us to another place, well I did ;D When God say GO.... it is best to obey the voice of God (if you know His voice) above all other voices and obey.... There a price to pay for disobeying God Voice. YES!!! you can feel the hurts, anger and bitterness in their sermon  They need healing like we need healing.... Even as a seer, prophet of God.... We don't know the heart of man. Only God know the heart of a person. The heart is reason why God dealt with Saul differently than how He dealt with David... Only God can lead us and direct us in what to do to solve the problem. I'm part of the solution Have you ever heard this quote "God made servants and servants became leaders" I believe you can not grow out of servanthood.... all leaders are servants, but not all servants are leaders. A pastor serve as a pastor.... Who do he/she serve? God's People.... every time he preach a sermon, teach Bible study, pray for the members, counsel the people, manage the church etc. he is serving, he is giving out of himself.... and it is one of the hardest job a person can take on. AT |
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 4, 2006 22:53:34 GMT -5
LANL..I agree it's about servanthood. Yet, what is true servanthood ? And I must say that all Pastors do not serve because they love God's people..yet, some serve because they are hirelings; who see being a Pastor as being a easy way to earn a living..a Pastor was just talking about how he has encountered Young ministers out of Bible College who after graduation eager to start their minstries so they can get rewards that come along with being a Pastor. Let us pray that our Pastors have a true understand of what being a servant really is.
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G3
Full Member
Let The Holy Ghost Show You The Way
Posts: 158
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Post by G3 on Jun 5, 2006 8:53:55 GMT -5
Great answers from everyone.
God has chosen His servants from amongst those of like passion in order to show "COMPASSION" to those who come to them in need of spiritual service. "You that are spiritual or of age, to "RESTORE" those who are over taken in a fault in the spirit of "MEEKNESS" considering your own "LIMITATIONS".
But at the same time those who are occupying as Serving/Shepherd are held in greater accountability and "MUST STRIVE" to live above reproach as examples without being a burden to the flock.
Every leader, whether it's spiritual or secular "UNDERSTANDS" and "ACCEPTS" his or her role and profiled position as heads or leaders knowing that they are under great scrutiny by their superiors and subordinates. They know that they will be praised and that they will also be criticized.
We are human and at times we will wear a facad as a covering to hide the pain and burden that we carry because of the high profiled position. Everything is open and uncovered before the Father. Nothing is hidden. So He moves on those who are "MATURE and SPIRITUAL" to pray for those who are leadship roles.
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Post by Jasmine on Jun 5, 2006 11:41:06 GMT -5
Jesus being our ultimate example of what a Servant is left us with great footsteps to follow. While he yet served others, he was still a "leader" and much more to the disciples.
The best Leaders are those who are great Servers.
My thought about this thread is: First and foremost Be faithful to GOD because if you are not faithful to God, The thoughts and your motives concerning any pastor or leaders will not be Edifying to the Body.
I believe that we focus TOOOOOO much on what this pastor is doing, what this pastor aint doing. My problems +your problems, + the Pastor's problems is: TOO many problems, and I don't need to be weighed down with everybody's mess. It render us inefffective for the Kingdom. Can't sleep at night because we worried about what somebody else is/aint doing. Can't praise him because we so heavy with burden's that God never intended for us to carry.
I say enough is a enough.
Pray/Fast/ turn it over to God and be done with it. Let it go.
Should we be concerned about what's going on with the body of Christ? Yes.
Should we be so consumed that we eat sleep and drink everybody else's problems? Of course not.
It is fail proof, and obviously we keep missing it; The best thing we can do for each other.. PRAY, PRAY PRAY PRAY and then pray some more.
We say that soooo much, but guess what.. It aint being doing. Prayer changes things. Not rebukes, Not wise Counsel. Not revelations..Prayer and ONLY prayer!
People don't read the bible, but always got a word or revelation.
People don't operate in the Spirit, and always wonder why they caught up in mess.
Oh Zion whats the matter now.
You don't pray like you used to, but always want to complain.
You don't fast like you used to, but always want to say what everybody else aint doing.
You don't read the word like you used to, but always got a revelation.
Oh Zion! Let stop focusing on distractions. Distractions will deter you.
We have all been hurt by church folks, by leaders, and etc.. Leaders are accoutable for their actions, just as we are accountable for how we handle everything that comes our way.
but its through LOVe that we are able to press and move on. Its through love...
Love will put you on your face to pray for those who you don't want to pray for
Love will send you to encourage some one who just tore you down.
Love never fails. Love your leaders, Love your Pastors
and trust me you will stop seeing alot of their faults, and will get on board with the Vision.
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 5, 2006 20:37:59 GMT -5
Jasmine..excellent post. Yet, again there are somethings that God will not turn his face away from. He sent the Prophets of the Old testament to confront the leaders of that time; and confront, encourage, rebuke, build up, and tear down they do at the prompting of God. Yes, we are exhorted to pray for our leaders, our Pastors, our Teachers, and etc. yet, no where in the Bible does it say " Continue to pray for I sent my prophets to speak to them and they did not heed my "voice"; again I sent my Messenger with a warning to my people for them to turn aaway from what I consider to be in my nostrils..yet, I want them to continue to pray that my hand turn; as I was watch my house turned into a house and that I am will forgive even they are not willing to forgive". Should we be reminded of the account of Eli and sons what happened to them, and as the presence of the Lord departed from them and the priesthood so to the point that a child was named Ichabod..I find it interesting that the ark was taken into battle by the Israelites...but, the Lord wasn't with them.
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 5, 2006 20:43:53 GMT -5
Prayer is great..yet, when God tells you to go your Pastor and say "_____________
___"..it has been prayed about long enough.. what will you do ?
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Post by anointedteacher on Jun 5, 2006 22:09:33 GMT -5
Remember... it is God who sends the Prophet.... Not just anybody who want to give the pastor a piece of their mind (I have been guilty of that)  God commission the prophet to throw down, pull down, tear down and pluck up  not Bro. Doe or Sister Sue. Samuel was not just a child.... he was a prophet of God at that young age. When Apostle Paul wrote letters concerning leadership, he wrote to two of his apostles, that he called his sons, who he have trained and activated in their position in the church under his covering. He taught them how to choose elders, beacons and bishops in the church and how to rebuke, Timothy and Titus. I agree with Jas.... you pray till God say STOP.... That mean it time to wash your hand and move on.... When God say stop.... it time to pray for yourself concerning where he have you to worship at. And don't worry about Innocent bro. Doe and Sister Sue , who sitting in that mess.... God know how to protect and lead those that belong to Him. We have to separate true false teachers from imperfect leaders. God deals with them differently. AT |
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 5, 2006 23:02:13 GMT -5
ATT...agreed. The voices of the Prophets have been silent..yet, the time is coming when they will declare what the voice of the Lord is saying. If God used a donkey to speak to a Prophet how can we box him and say that he will only send a Prophet to speak to their Pastor..he can use anyone he wants to speak. I understand praying for leaders..as I have been in a position to pray for leadership; until the Spirit said this has been prayed about long enough...they had been warned 3 times to deal with the same sin that was occurring in that body.
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Post by giantsdodie on Jun 6, 2006 8:17:28 GMT -5
I disagree that the voice of the prophets have been silent. The voice has not been silent. It just hasnt been PUBLIC. Nathan went to David directly and discreetly. He did not blast David publically. This is what GOD has been doing for a long time.
I have been under negative leadership on more than one occasion. At one time myself and a few friends were persecuted openly by the pastor for the span of six months on national television no less.
We have to give God our hearts and allow Him to heal, and then continue to do what w must do. There are many many great leaders out there. The leadership I am under now is very good. Most leaders understand serving. The problem with us as individuals we just dont see all the serving some leaders do because we arent privy to a lot of it.
We cannot give place to the enemy to allow him to build strongholds in the area of " bitter heart " and " wrong focus ".
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Post by Jasmine on Jun 6, 2006 10:31:22 GMT -5
Thank you. Everybody wants to put somebody on a open rebuke, and Blast their faults like they have done some glorious thing for God. The bible has already given us clear directions on what to do. Got to they brother, that ye may win him, and if he doesn't hear you then you take another brother, and if he does not hearken, then and only then do you take them before the church "board", trustees, elders, whatever. Seems like people never want to follow the first two steps. |
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G3
Full Member
Let The Holy Ghost Show You The Way
Posts: 158
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Post by G3 on Jun 6, 2006 13:23:16 GMT -5
That is so true, but, we have two senerios here. In David's cas, we have a leader who was rebuked in private by the prophet, but his judgement and the reason was open and known through out the kingdom. In "thy brother" case, we have two believers who have an issue, one want to resolve with restoration and fellowship, while the other is carnal and refuses to be Christ-like. Because of his disposition and refusal to adhere to the Word of God in the "minimal" presence of two witnesses, a person's identity as a believer or non-believer will be determind by the "Church". A discision that has been "authorized" by the God-head but executed by the "church" with Yeshua as "Overseer".
We are authorized by the God-head in determining one's "authentic salvation", when there is a refusal to ahere to the Word of God. That is why steps are taken before one is "cast out" as an unbeliever..
This is also applied too all who, in spite of what the scripture has said, teach false doctrines and too those who entertain such teachings who refuses to consult the Holy Spirit for truth but rather trust the words of man who is spiraling both into a ditch by their teachings by using their "IRREVOCABLE" gifts and calling as reasons to validate such teachings. We forget that it was prophesied by Yeshua that it will be through the "CHARISMA" that will be used in the "BEGINNING OF SORROW" to decieve, if it was possible, and it is possible, the very elect. By not adhering to the rebukes of the "PROPHETS and the PROPHETICAL" and by their continual justification of their convictions in spite of, this is biblical grounds for the minimal of two witnesses to declare them as non-believers regardless of their prestige and status in the church.
Giant, your are so right. The prophets has not been silent but in private they've been feeding on the scroll of honey and bitterness. What the Father has laid too their taste has been sweet as honey because of "His Word". By being in a "SEASON" of meditation in His Word now has consumed their "inner most being". The sweetness of His Word is now bitter because of the judgment that they must proclaim. This proclamation will be unfavorable in the church and when various names be uttered in the proclamation, the "Prophets" will draw great rebukes from a major portion of the church, non and denominational.
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?
They need healing like we need healing.... 
God commission the prophet to throw down, pull down, tear down and pluck up 
not Bro. Doe or Sister Sue. Samuel was not just a child.... he was a prophet of God at that young age.