Spirit of Religion

[keita]

Grace and Peace, Saints!

I have found out that the only those who get offended by what people wear, the hairstyles, the make up, and etc..are those bound by the spirit of religion

...BTW, what is the "spirit of religion"?

What is a religious spirit..the term cannot be found in the Bible..but, check out Matthew 23...

It would be the likes of the Pharisees and Sadduces in the days of Christ....

The above exchange (which is from another discussion) came to mind as I was reading the following article/advertisement from my e-mail. When I originally posted it, a discussion of the "spirit of religion" began to develop so I moved the whole thing here to its own thread.


www.elijahlist.com

"What Could Be So Wrong With a Religious Spirit? Yet God Wants You Freed From it! -- And it Must Be Cast Out!" -- A New book by C. Peter Wagner

"I've heard of this "getting rid of a "religious spirit" for years. I've even dealt harshly with it in my own life.

But, only now, has someone with as high a profile as C. Peter Wagner (and others who write for this book, including Rick Joyner, Kimberly Daniels, and Chuck Pierce) had the courage to address it . . . openly . . . and publicly . . . to the Church at large.

Read it . . . if you dare!

Steve Shultz
THE ELIJAH LIST

P.S. Check out this excerpt from C. Peter Wagner's "FREEDOM FROM THE RELIGIOUS SPIRIT. . . "

--Excerpt by C. Peter Wagner:

" . . . This 'religious spirit' is not just an attitude or religiosity . . . It is actually an evil spirit that must be resisted, bound, and cast out!"

From the Foreword:

Life should be filled with joy. Nehemiah 8:10 reads, "The joy of the Lord is your strength." One of the great joys of my life has been to work alongside C. Peter Wagner. Peter is a man filled with joy. He enjoys life, people, ministry, his family, food, and even his own jokes. He is full of joy, for one, because he never lets life get stale. I believe that a key to his life is his love for embracing change. When God decides it is time to bring change into the earthly realm through new thought processes, Peter seems to be one of the first on this earth to raise his hand and say, "Use me!" That is why he could write this book, Freedom from the Religious Spirit.

What is a religious spirit and how does it work? This book boldly explores and explains how this deceptive force has labored to stop the progress of the Church throughout the ages.

Religion is linked with worship. Religion, when pure, is very powerful. However, religion is also defined as an organized system of doctrine with an approved pattern of behavior. Behavior has to demonstrate a proper form of worship. This is where we move from pure and undefiled religion to ritual. Demons of doctrine rob individuals of their freedom to worship a holy God in purity by instituting rules and regulations for their worship.

In compiling Freedom from the Religious Spirit, Peter Wagner has gathered a wonderful team of contributors around him. The truths contained in this book unlock revelation for today and release keys. I want to encourage you, as you read this book, "Fear not." Fear not change! Fear not embracing the paradigms that need to be expressed today to bring change. Fear not confrontation. Fear not the next great move of the Spirit of God. Fear not letting go of worship methods in the Church that have caused us to become comfortable. Defy the spirits of religion around you and move with boldness into your future!

Chuck D. Pierce
Vice President, Global Harvest Ministries
President, Glory of Zion International Ministries, Inc.

"Freedom from the Religious Spirit"
Understanding How Deceptive Religious Forces Try to Destroy God's Plan and Purpose for His Church
by C. Peter Wagner, General Editor
with Contributions from Rick Joyner, Kimberly Daniels, Robert Heidler and More!
$9.99 Book

"Cults and false religions are easily discerned and discarded, but the religious spirit is extremely subtle. It has attempted to thwart possibly every revival or movement of God to date, and it still retains an undeserved seat of honor throughout a huge part of today's Church. If you would like to recognize the influence of this spirit and find freedom for yourself and others, then "Freedom from the Religious Spirit" is for you!" - Rick Joyner, Founder and Executive Director, MorningStar Publications and Ministries, Author, The Final Quest and Overcoming Evil in the Last Days

BREAK THE BONDS THAT KEEP YOU FROM TRUE SPIRITUAL TRANSFORMATION

Composed of archaic traditions and obsolete practices, and masterminded by the enemy of our souls, the spirit of religion seeks to keep individual believers and the Church stagnant and unaware of the call of the Holy Spirit for change. Although not always acknowledged, the religious spirit exerts tremendous control over minds and souls. This spirit was evident when the Pharisees failed to recognize the coming of Christ. Today the spirit of religion can be so subtle that we are unaware of its impact, instead being deceived into believing that God is directing us.

Only when we recognize the characteristics of this counterfeit religion can we be freed to experience the transformation of the Holy Spirit in our lives and in the heart of the Church. Join C. Peter Wagner and other dynamic Christian leaders as they unveil the dark influence of the spirit of religion. Freedom from the Religious Spirit is exciting reading for those who are committed to seeing the kingdom of God aggressively advance in this time.

Table of Contents

The Corporate Spirit of Religion by C. Peter Wagner
The Corporate Spirit of Religion in Action - A Case Study by Jim Anderson
Combating the Spirit of Religion by Rick Joyner
The Counterfeit Kingdom by Robert Heidler
Personal Freedom from the Spirit of Religion by E. Leo Lawson, Jr.
Protecting Your Soul from the Spirit of Religion by Tommi Femrite
The Fruit of "Religion" by Kimberly Daniels
The Spirit of Religion in the Local Church by Chris Hayward
The Spirit of Religion, the Great Imposter by Hank and Myrene Morris

[keita]

Krazeeboi wrote:

Keita,

These are the types of things that really make me go "Hmmm..."

Firstly, I believe that the phrase "spirit of religion" was invalidated when it was admitted that "Religion is linked with worship. Religion, when pure, is very powerful." Therefore, shouldn't the phrase actually be "spirit of impure religion" or "spirit of false religion"? I tell you, the charismatic movement can be so confusing and contradictory at times, and butchering the English language doesn't help either.

I thought this particular part of a review was interesting as well:

Composed of archaic traditions and obsolete practices, and masterminded by the enemy of our souls, the spirit of religion seeks to keep individual believers and the Church stagnant and unaware of the call of the Holy Spirit for change. Although not always acknowledged, the religious spirit exerts tremendous control over minds and souls. This spirit was evident when the Pharisees failed to recognize the coming of Christ. Today the spirit of religion can be so subtle that we are unaware of its impact, instead being deceived into believing that God is directing us.

I really wish that this person would've identified what he deems as "archaic traditions and obsolete practices." We all know that there are certain historic traditions of the Church which constitute a significant part of our worship (in the apostolic era, and in some circles today, this would include headcovering and communion), so other than that, I'm not sure what's being referred to.

[keita]

Keita,

These are the types of things that really make me go "Hmmm..."

Me too, my brother, me too! It actually reflects a concern I've had about how many and how often things have been (extrascripturally) identified as "spirits" in "Churchspeak". I am also a little struck by the number of prominent leaders who accept and teach that perspective.

Although many certainly are, is every (mis)behavior really the result of a demonic spirit requiring deliverance ministry? Sometimes I think that's where we're headed.

Firstly, I believe that the phrase "spirit of religion" was invalidated when it was admitted that "Religion is linked with worship. Religion, when pure, is very powerful." Therefore, shouldn't the phrase actually be "spirit of impure religion" or "spirit of false religion"?

Great point!

I tell you, the charismatic movement can be so confusing and contradictory at times, and butchering the English language doesn't help either.

LOL and Amen!

I thought this particular part of a review was interesting as well:

Composed of archaic traditions and obsolete practices, and masterminded by the enemy of our souls, the spirit of religion seeks to keep individual believers and the Church stagnant and unaware of the call of the Holy Spirit for change. Although not always acknowledged, the religious spirit exerts tremendous control over minds and souls. This spirit was evident when the Pharisees failed to recognize the coming of Christ. Today the spirit of religion can be so subtle that we are unaware of its impact, instead being deceived into believing that God is directing us.

I really wish that this person would've identified what he deems as "archaic traditions and obsolete practices." We all know that there are certain historic traditions of the Church which constitute a significant part of our worship (in the apostolic era, and in some circles today, this would include headcovering and communion), so other than that, I'm not sure what's being referred to.

That was actually an excerpt so maybe the author expounds in his book. Your answer is only $9.99 away!

[keita]

Here's another "voice":

God Hates Religion

Religion is often characterized by absolutism, authoritarianism and activism
which do not derive from God Himself.

©1999 by James A. Fowler. All rights reserved.

A survey of the Scriptures reveals that there is one category that God hates above all others. God hates religion! Many will be confused, if not offended by such a statement, for they have identified God with religion. Religion, therefore, needs to be defined and differentiated from the Christian gospel.

The English word "religion" is etymologically derived from the Latin word religo, meaning to "bind up." Religion binds people up in rules and regulations or in ritualistic patterns of devotion.

Christianity, on the other hand, was never meant to be a religion. Christianity is the dynamic spiritual life of the risen Lord Jesus indwelling the spirit of man so as to create functional behavior to the glory of God. Granted, men have attempted to force Christianity into the molds and forms of religion. That is evident by all the steeples and sanctuaries and ecclesiastical programs that dot the landscape of our society.

It is the propensity of man to formulate religion ­ to take that which is of the invisible God and attempt to make it visible, tangible and controllable. Man-made religion! The apostle Paul refers to it as "self-made religion" (Colossians 2:23), and goes on to indicate that it is of no value against fleshly indulgence. In essence, Paul is saying that "religion is of no value against man's sinfulness." In fact, religion is a co-dependent enabler of the sins of mankind. It is itself an addiction.

Religion is essentially idolatry. Men worship their man-made formations and structures ­ their ideological idols formed in the concrete of inflexible minds. When the apostle Paul came to Athens (Acts 17:22), he observed their idols and exclaimed, "Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects." The Greek word that Paul used for "religious" literally means "to have great respect for demons."

To document that God hates religion, note the following passages of Scripture:

"...every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." (Deuteronomy 12:31)

"I have had enough of burnt offerings...Bring your worthless offerings no longer...I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts; they have become a burden to Me... So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you... I will not listen..." (Isaiah 1:10-15)

"I hate, I reject your festivals; nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies...take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps." (Amos 5:21-24)

These passages bear out the fact that God hates religion, and all of its procedures and programs; rituals and regulations.

Religion is inevitably the result of man taking that which is of God and forming it, formulating it, in such a way that men end up "playing God." Men can form idols out of wood or stone in an attempt to represent God, or they can formulate ideological idols (belief-systems, doctrinal definitions, theological theses). The men who thus form and formulate become the "chief priests" of the new religion because they are regarded as knowing the most about what God is like, and well they should for they formed "it."

There are three features which seem to be basic to all forms of man-made religion. Religion involves absolutism, authoritarianism and activism. Now there is nothing wrong with absolutes, authority or activity. God is absolute, authoritative and active. But when any man or group of men attempts to establish themselves as the arbiters or regulators of God's absoluteness, authority or activity, they then begin to "play god," and religion is the result as they impose their perspective of absolute, authority and activity on others.


Absolutism

God is absolute. All other absolutes are derived from His absolute character. But when any man, or grouping of men, think that they have determined the absolutes of God absolutely and set about to impose them absolutely on others, then you have the absolutism of religion.

It is the natural propensity of man to want to get everything figured out. We have a "lust for certainty." We want everything to be "cut and dried," black and white, right and wrong, with no loose ends. We do not like paradox, antinomy or dialectic.

Most men cannot accept that the Infinite God is bigger than their finite ability to understand. So we set about to reduce God to fit within our rationalistic and intellectual reasonings. We reduce God to fit within our mental "box," then we nail it shut, construct our creed, and absolutely affirm that we have God figured out. We have reduced God to no bigger than our cranial cavity.

Religion advocates the absolutism of a particular belief-system. We formulate our doctrine, our theology, and demand that others affirm it absolutely as we do ­ no variation; no freedom of thought or opinion; no doubt (for doubt would indicate that one does not believe it absolutely.)

Such absolutism is the basis of "fundamentalism." Fundamentalism is a religious idolatry that tends to worship a particular formulation of fixed fundamentals of faith. These fundamentals usually include both the detailed doctrines of a belief-system, as well as the meticulously prescribed behavior patterns of an ethical-system.

Religion employs the absolutism of a particular and prescribed moral law, a closed-system of ethics. These behavioral laws (judicial, theological or sociological) are comprised of dos and don'ts, "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots," rules and regulations, and codes of conduct. They are legalistically applied with rigid inflexibility and with perfectionistic expectations of absolute obedience.

Such absolutism in belief and behavior leads to the absolutism of exclusivism: "We are absolutely the only ones who have found truth; Ours is absolutely the only way." Thus religion begins to employ the rejective "tests of fellowship" which demand acceptance of their belief-system and conformity to their behavior patterns or else they will disallow you to be a part of their socialistic group identity. They disallow individualism and freedom of thought. Identity is found in the whole. Any deviations are met with condemnatory judgmentalism and guilt manipulation unto conformity. Severe forms of corrective social "discipline" are employed to keep people "in line," subscribing to the absolutism. Threats of excommunication from the authorities in charge are used to create absolute conformity and absolute obedience.


Authoritarianism

God, because He is absolute, is authoritative. But when any man, or group of men, claim to be the designated instruments of God's authority and attempt to express such authoritatively, especially in an autocratic or totalitarian way, you then have the authoritarianism of religion.

The bulk of mankind are followers, who will follow a leader like sheep. There always have been and always will be some men, therefore, who set themselves up as leaders and authorities claiming to represent God and to speak authoritatively for God. They often claim to have a special "in" with God, a "hot-line" with God, or they claim to have a special vision, a special "calling," a special understanding, or a superior spirituality. Some people inevitably follow such people and regard them as religious authorities – gurus.

The well-known proverb states, "Power corrupts; and absolute power corrupts absolutely." The selfish propensities within men cause them to abuse power and use people to their own ends as they lead. Such results in authoritarianism. It may be but a subtle emphasis on "pastoral authority" or the spiritual authority of an elder or a "shepherd," or it may be a special esteem granted for those in exalted positions of so-called "clergy" or priests, ministers, preachers, presbyters, etc. These are then developed into an hierarchical order of ecclesiastical positioning and politicizing.

These self-designated religious authorities often foster a dependency attitude of the people upon themselves. Directly or indirectly they encourage loyalty and commitment to the organization they lead, or to themselves. As incentive for such they often convey the idea that they hold the eternal fate or spiritual destiny of others in their hands, in their power.

The sense of personal equality before God is lost. People are expected to learn their "place" and told not to "get out of order." "Do not ask questions; do as you are told." "We will do the thinking and the feeling for you." "We will do the Bible study and the praying – the relating to God." "We speak for God, and we will tell you what is true." What is this but mind-control propaganda, advocating blind, unquestioning submission and obedience. It is an undemocratic system of non-equality wherein the religious authorities have no accountability to the people they serve.

Such religious authoritarianism creates a "fantasy-bond" of the people toward their so-called "priests." There is a projected idealization of the authorities as being especially close to God -- almost "gods" themselves. The religious authorities then exploit the people, utilizing superstition and fear to control people's thinking and behavior by shame, guilt and threatened loss of identity or eternal destiny.

Religious authorities must create a sense of direction and momentum for the people; a sense of doing something and going somewhere. There must be a program of activity that will keep people "involved," feeling that they are meaningfully expending their lives and energy for God's "cause." This is also fueled by the self-serving purpose of financing and perpetuating the religious system.

Activism

God is an active God, and He wants to act in us by the expression of His character and ministry. But when any man, or group of men, claim that they are the directors of God's activity and that they have discerned what God wants to do in you, how God wants you to act, beware of religious activism.

Religion is perpetuated by the activism of the people. People want a sense of meaning, a sense of purpose, a sense of belonging, a sense of identity, a reason to be. These are God-given desires. Religion offers a false-fulfillment of these desires. Religion repeatedly encourages people to become more involved, more active. Involvement, commitment, dedication, consecration -- these are the hallmarks and the "passwords" of religion. Religion fosters a fixation, a compulsion, an obsession, an addiction to religious activities, explaining the absolute necessity to be thus engaged in the activities in order to please God, and for the good of the whole -- never admitting that it is primarily for the good of the religious authorities!

Activism seems to become an end in itself within religion: the activism of financial giving, the activism of keeping all the rules, the activism of church attendance, the activism of participating in all the ordinances and rituals, the activism of recruiting others to the "cause." Such activism is a not-so-subtle form of "works" salvation, which leads to physical fatigue and exhaustion and other forms of addiction.

Religious activism sometimes takes the form of social protest. People are enjoined to stand up for God's absolutes in political activism. Sometimes they go so far as to engage in criminal and terrorist activity ­ even wars. In the midst of such they usually develop a persecution-complex: "It is 'us', the good guys of God's army, against 'them', the army of humanism or satan; and only by our ardent activism will God win!"

So often religion defines spirituality by the amount and intensity of one's activism. "If you are really going to be 'spiritual' and close to God, you must be doing what God wants you to do," i.e. our proscribed form of activism.

Much of religious activism is perpetuated by people simply as an escape from reality, an escapism from the day-to-day functionality of life. It is much more difficult to stay right where you are and be the father or mother, husband or wife, employer or employee that God intends you to be, than to carry a sign and chant choruses or to busy oneself in the program of a religious organization.

Religion results in dysfunctional socialization. It will never produce the functional loving community of mankind that God desires. Religion is unloving and self-serving. What religion offers is a pseudo-love, an addiction to the sense of belonging, an addiction to the sense of being cared for and sought after, an addiction to the sense of meaningful existence and purpose and identity.

This expose of religion is in no way designed or intended to impinge upon the reality of Christianity. Careful distinction between religion and Christianity must be made. As stated in the beginning of this article, Christianity is the dynamic spiritual life of the risen Lord Jesus indwelling the spirit of man so as to create functional behavior unto the glory of God. Religion is the man-made aberration that attempts to impose absolutism, authoritarianism and activism upon other men.

Your thoughts?

[Nikkol]

I'm still reading but I did want to point out one thing. According to how he views "religion" This in Acts would be religious

Acts 15:6-21
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

As well as this:
Ac 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

For they continued in the teachings (doctrines) of the apostles....

To document that God hates religion, note the following passages of Scripture:

"...every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." (Deuteronomy 12:31)

"I have had enough of burnt offerings...Bring your worthless offerings no longer...I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts; they have become a burden to Me... So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you... I will not listen..." (Isaiah 1:10-15)

"I hate, I reject your festivals; nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies...take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps." (Amos 5:21-24)

These passages bear out the fact that God hates religion, and all of its procedures and programs; rituals and regulations.

The problem wasn't in what they were doing but the motive. Remember it was God that told them to give offereings.

[krazeeboi]

The English word "religion" is etymologically derived from the Latin word religo, meaning to "bind up." Religion binds people up in rules and regulations or in ritualistic patterns of devotion.

If the premise is faulty, so then will the conclusion.

I see a faulty premise in play here.

Now while the writer's etymology is correct, it must be asked, upon what basis does he extrapolate this to mean "to bind people up in rules and regulations or ritualistic patterns of devotion"? Has he forgotten about the following scripture passages?

Deuteronomy 6
4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

8And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Proverbs 6
20My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

21 Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.

"Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart."(Prov. 3:3)

"Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth." (Isa. 49:18)

"I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick." (Ezek. 34:16)

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound." (Isa. 61:1)


Why is it concepts such as these cannot be a reference point?

Also, let's go this route. Anyone familiar with this scripture? "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." (Romans 12:1)

What is the significance of this scripture?

"God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar." (Psalms 118:27)

Lawd have mercy, I'm getting my own self HAPPY here! This stuff will PREACH!

So in conclusion, I'm proud to say that I have religion. My religion is a binding one.

I bind the commandment of the Lord to my heart.

I bind mercy and truth to my heart.

I am binded with ornaments, even as a bride (for I am the bride of Christ).

I was broken, and the Lord binded me up.

My heart was broken, and the Lord binded up my broken heart.

And last but not least, I am to present my body to God as a living sacrifince, binded to the horns of the altar (the cross of Calvary).

Can somebody say "GLORY!"

[krazeeboi]

By the way, that article was one of the most imbalanced I have EVER seen. I think the part that jumped out at me most was the fact that he basically disregarded statements of faith. Personally, I find this to be one of bigger problems in the Church today: nobody knows what they believe. Everyone wants to flock to a church that's having a "move of God" (and what's up with an omnipresent Being "moving" anyway?) and have absolutely no idea what the church teaches and believes.

You know what? It's interesting how the Church basically has its own cultural shifts which parallels those of the world these days. We now live in a post-modern era in which it is declared, "All truth is relative. It does not matter what you believe as long as you are sincere. My beliefs are just as valid as yours. Keep your beliefs to yourself." Compare that with modern-day culture in the Church. It is declared, "'Doctrine' is a nasty word. Doctrine divides but the Spirit unites. Let's forget all about our differences. Worry more about the 'the move of God' and not about your tradition." And what results do we have? Messed up theologies. We have, in part, the neo-Pentecostal movement to thank for this (complete with "Baptist bishops" and all). I absolutely LOVE what T.D. Jakes said in one of his messages. He said, "Today in the church we do holy things; we play holy music; we dance the holy dance; but how can you do holy things without the Holy Ghost?" I don't wanna go off on a tangent though...

The author provided no sense of balance here. The fact of the matter is, throughout church history, certain inaccurate teachings have forced the church to solidify and codify certain doctrines in accordance with biblical teachings. This does NOT mean that we know everything about God there is to know. However, I also believe that it is important that we be honest with oursleves and admit when an issue isn't a clear one, biblically speaking. But this is not to say that we cannot know ANYTHING about it.

I'm tired of typing right now. But I would also like to refer anyone who's interested to an article entitled Relationship vs. Religion? Here's an interesting excerpt:

...at this point we have to be very careful not to mislead by replacing one error with another, equally as bad. The fact is, Christianity does have rules, it does have do's and don'ts. It is a religion. But it was never meant to be just information, and that's where [the "Christianity isn't a religion; it's a relationship"] slogan touches on truth.

I hope you all will enjoy.

[Melani23]

krazeeboi said:

By the way, that article was one of the most imbalanced I have EVER seen. I think the part that jumped out at me most was the fact that he basically disregarded statements of faith. Personally, I find this to be one of bigger problems in the Church today: nobody knows what they believe. Everyone wants to flock to a church that's having a "move of God" (and what's up with an omnipresent Being "moving" anyway?) and have absolutely no idea what the church teaches and believes.

You know what? It's interesting how the Church basically has its own cultural shifts which parallels those of the world these days. We now live in a post-modern era in which it is declared, "All truth is relative. It does not matter what you believe as long as you are sincere. My beliefs are just as valid as yours. Keep your beliefs to yourself." Compare that with modern-day culture in the Church. It is declared, "'Doctrine' is a nasty word. Doctrine divides but the Spirit unites. Let's forget all about our differences. Worry more about the 'the move of God' and not about your tradition." And what results do we have? Messed up theologies. We have, in part, the neo-Pentecostal movement to thank for this (complete with "Baptist bishops" and all). I absolutely LOVE what T.D. Jakes said in one of his messages. He said, "Today in the church we do holy things; we play holy music; we dance the holy dance; but how can you do holy things without the Holy Ghost?" I don't wanna go off on a tangent though...

The author provided no sense of balance here. The fact of the matter is, throughout church history, certain inaccurate teachings have forced the church to solidify and codify certain doctrines in accordance with biblical teachings. This does NOT mean that we know everything about God there is to know. However, I also believe that it is important that we be honest with oursleves and admit when an issue isn't a clear one, biblically speaking. But this is not to say that we cannot know ANYTHING about it.

I'm tired of typing right now. But I would also like to refer anyone who's interested to an article entitled Relationship vs. Religion? Here's an interesting excerpt:

...at this point we have to be very careful not to mislead by replacing one error with another, equally as bad. The fact is, Christianity does have rules, it does have do's and don'ts. It is a religion. But it was never meant to be just information, and that's where [the "Christianity isn't a religion; it's a relationship"] slogan touches on truth.

I hope you all will enjoy.

These are real demons. It goes beyond what one wears, baptizes, etc. It limits church growth and puts people in bondage. Anything someone tries to talk you into and the Lord has not said (specifcally in the Word or to you) is BONDAGE.

I have met these religious demons - MIND CONTROL! Jehovah Witness' have them and so do many Pentacostal and Baptist churches.

NO MO' EXCUSES! IN the TRUTH of JESUS is FREEDOM!

[krazeeboi]

Well I disagree that they are demons, but I DO believe that in many instances, it represents real strongholds and imaginations that need to be cast down.

[stillfocused]

Krazeeboi.....interesting points you're making...

Yet, I know first that that these spirits are real...and they destroy the church, it's ugly and sometimes I shake my head and others I get mad as all get out...because there seems to be a premise that if we declare it's not so, they will all disappear...


What are the ruling spirits over our cities, in our churches...I know for certain that the spirit of religion is real...because I live in a city with many that empty, and producing no life...because they are bound by doctrines of men and not of God..Paul called them "seducing" spirits...

[stillfocused]

By the way I hate the word religious...
And there others who practice other beliefs...yet, do we call them religion ? There are spirits behind everything we do and say; some of God and some not...what is the ruling spirit by Islam and what other spirits do we see attached to what they believe ? The same goes for
Christianity...what is the ruling spirit by the spirit of Jezbel ? May we all have a hunger and a desire to have the truth of the God's revealed to us..so, that we may not deceived or tossed to and fro by every wind and doctrine that comes along...



Stillfocused

[keita]

KB wrote:

But I would also like to refer anyone who's interested to an article entitled Relationship vs. Religion?

That is a really good article, KB! Thanks for sharing it. I thought the author's conclusion was particularly on point:

Yes, Christianity is a religion, but it's true religion. True religion produces right relationship to God which leads to right experience and right intimate relationship with God.

Now as far as the "spirit of religion" is concerned, I am wondering something. That is, if we are (and staying) clear about the possible distinctions/differences between a "religion" (which I believe Christianity most certainly is) and (what is being referred to as) "the spirit of religion" (which, though the name gives me pause, I believe is VERY real)?

[ybrown]

We know the term "religion" doesn't appear in the Bible (edited to add: it depends on the version that's used) , but the concept itself, is and usually the impact of "organized religion" is not something that God is pleased with. That's not to say that God doesn't want His children, the church, to be organized because He most certainly does.

Let's look at "religion" in the Bible and how God treats and regards it.

Take the Tower of Babel, for instance in Genesis 11:1-9. The descendents of Noah organized themselves to build the tower under the belief system that if they could build it tall enough they would be saved. They believed that their unity was more important than their relationship with God. God stepped in and confused their languages, thus breaking up this "religion."

Exodus 6 and following: God had given promises to Abraham concerning a special relationship between his descendents and God. However, we see this “organized” for the nation beginning at the exodus and working through the history of the Israelites. The Ten Commandments, Tabernacle, sacrifice system, etc. was all organized by God and to be followed by the Israelites. Ultimately, the end result of this religion was to lead the follower to Christ, but instead, many misunderstood this and have worshipped the elements rather than the True God.

In Judges, if you look at most of the conflicts experienced by the Israelites, they involved religion. Baal (Judges 6; 1 Kings 18); Dagon (1 Samuel 5); Molech (2 Kings 23:10). God used these religions to display His power by defeating them.

In the Gospels, the Pharisees and Sadducees represented organized religion at the time of Christ. Jesus consistently confronted them about their false teachings and hypocritical lifestyles and many of them changed from this organized "religion". And Paul is one such example.

In the Epistles there were organized groups that mixed the gospel with certain lists of required works. (sounds familiar - like the Roman Catholic Church). They also sought to put pressure on believers to change and accept this new religion. Galatians and Colossians give warnings about such.

Even in Revelation we know that organized religion will have an impact on the world as the Antichrist sets up the world religion.

In my humblest of opinions, organized religion, as it has transpired over the millenia, is one of the worst things that has ever happened to Jesus because it has distracted from the intent of God - which is personal relationship with Him throgh Christ.

The Bible does speak of organized Christians (believers) that are part of His plan. He calls them churches. The descriptions from the Book of Acts and the Epistles provide direction that the church is to be organized and interdependent. The organization leads to protection, productivity and outreach Acts 2:41-47)

As it is today, we have billions of people that are sitting under umbrellas (churches) with no covering - false Christian and non-Christian religions. Some of these people are saved, but most of them are not.

[keita]

TEACH!!!

Might "organized religion", as you are depicting it in your post, be said to be a possible consequence of and/or a vehicle for what is being identified as the "spirit of religion"?

I'm also thinking that with regards to the Church in its intended function as the living Body of Christ, an "organization" was and continues to be sadly mistaken and a sorry replacement for an "organism".

[ybrown]

It's that type of organized religion that God punished so many times, that brings about that "spirit of religion." Then we wonder why today's Church is so divided, with most not even preaching the true Word of God.