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Post by ybrown on May 5, 2006 10:56:05 GMT -5
If God is sovereign, how can He not do or allow evil? Sovereign means over all, including evil. Is it possible to do evil and not sin and vice versa?
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Post by Jasmine on May 5, 2006 15:15:41 GMT -5
I think the difference is God doesn't perform evil works. However he does allow evil to occur.
His Sovereignty is that He is able to do what he wants to, when and whenever He wants to..and owe no man any explanation.
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G3
Full Member
Let The Holy Ghost Show You The Way
Posts: 158
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Post by G3 on May 5, 2006 16:35:20 GMT -5
Hey Jaz, kind of reminds you of His response to Job complaints and Paul defense of the Father's disposition on whom He chooses.
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Post by ybrown on May 5, 2006 16:58:35 GMT -5
Are we sure that God doesn’t perform evil works?
We easily accept that God can do and does do good, but why do we reject the notion that He also can do and does do evil? Are we incorrectly putting our own standard of goodness on God?
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Post by Jasmine on May 5, 2006 21:26:44 GMT -5
Its not rejected. Allowing them and actully performing them are two different things.
Did God cause those 2 airplanes to fly into the twin towers..I don't think so. Did He allow it? Yes.
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Post by keita on May 6, 2006 15:50:39 GMT -5
If God is sovereign, how can He not do or allow evil? I believe that God not only does, uses and allows "evil", He also created, creates and completely controls it. For whom? I believe God does do "evil", yet it is absolutely impossible for Him to sin. His Sovereignty is that He is able to do what he wants to, when and whenever He wants to..and owe no man any explanation. Hey Jaz, kind of reminds you of His response to Job complaints and Paul defense of the Father's disposition on whom He chooses. Amen! And not only is God "able" to do whatever, whenever, wherever, to whomever He chooses, that is exactly and only what He does. God alone has "got it like that" regarding everybody and everything He created... including "evil". We easily accept that God can do and does do good, but why do we reject the notion that He also can do and does do evil? In a word, DECEPTION. Unfortunately, this kind of selective theology is an all too common response to the many scriptural paradoxes which challenge believers. In this case, I believe the "rejection" requires essentially ignoring scriptures like these: "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." (Dt 32:39)
"Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy." (Is 54:16)
"I form the light, and I create darkness: I make peace, and I create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Is 45:7)which are God's own words about Himself. Yes. And I believe we do so from a lack of understanding...and to our great detriment. |
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Post by nina on May 7, 2006 3:17:15 GMT -5
"Are we incorrectly putting our own standard of goodness on God?" - Doesn't it all go back to the Garden of Eden and man eating of the fruit of the "tree of knowledge 'of good and evil' "? -When they were tempted and ate of the fruit, weren't they told that, if they did, they would not actually die but "be like God?" - If God, sovereign God, perfect, just, good, omnipotent and omniscient God, created evil, and yet looked at all that he had done and said that it was "good", doesn't it mean that there is actually a "good" purpose for "evil"? And, if there is one, for whose good was evil created?.... (just typing outloud!  |
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Post by krazeeboi on May 7, 2006 23:35:09 GMT -5
"And, if there is one, for whose good was evil created?...." AHA! Good one Sister Nina!  |
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Post by ybrown on May 8, 2006 11:11:46 GMT -5
If God is sovereign, how can He not do or allow evil? I believe that God not only does, uses and allows "evil", He also created, creates and completely controls it. For whom? I believe God does do "evil", yet it is absolutely impossible for Him to sin. Amen! And not only is God "able" to do whatever, whenever, wherever, to whomever He chooses, that is exactly and only what He does. God alone has "got it like that" regarding everybody and everything He created... including "evil". In a word, DECEPTION. Unfortunately, this kind of selective theology is an all too common response to the many scriptural paradoxes which challenge believers. In this case, I believe the "rejection" requires essentially ignoring scriptures like these: "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand." (Dt 32:39)
"Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy." (Is 54:16)
"I form the light, and I create darkness: I make peace, and I create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Is 45:7)which are God's own words about Himself. Yes. And I believe we do so from a lack of understanding...and to our great detriment. Keita, Amen, amen and amen! I think our error lies in the fact that we have concluded that Satan is the antithesis of God and that evil is only the work of Satan and that no evil works come from the Father. |
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Post by ybrown on May 8, 2006 11:22:47 GMT -5
"Are we incorrectly putting our own standard of goodness on God?" - Doesn't it all go back to the Garden of Eden and man eating of the fruit of the "tree of knowledge 'of good and evil' "? -When they were tempted and ate of the fruit, weren't they told that, if they did, they would not actually die but "be like God?" - If God, sovereign God, perfect, just, good, omnipotent and omniscient God, created evil, and yet looked at all that he had done and said that it was "good", doesn't it mean that there is actually a "good" purpose for "evil"? And, if there is one, for whose good was evil created?.... (just typing outloud! You have said a mouthful, Nina, and you've asked some great questions! We all recognize that God wasn't surprised when Adam and Eve disobyed, but what I'm wondering is whether or not God made them perfect to begin with. We assume that it was just the serpent's false leadings that caused the fall, but are we missing that it was also our parent's God given nature at work as well? God declared it all good because it the end, it all serves His purposes. |
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Post by giantsdodie on May 8, 2006 12:17:18 GMT -5
God does not do evil. It is impossible for God to do evil.
The text that is quoted in Isaiah as far as " God creating evil " is atcually translated in Hebrew to mean" I allow calamity to happen "
GOD is not evil, HE can not do evil, and HE can not tempt or be tempted with evil.
James 1:13-15;
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death
Psalms 145:17
17The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.
Romans 9:14
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
God has absolutely no evil nature within Him. What was at work is what GOD gave Adam and Eve in His sovereignty as God was the ability to CHOOSE. Adam and Even made a poor decision. Remember Eve was decevied Adam wasnt. He made a willing choice to disobey God.
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Post by livinganewlife on May 8, 2006 13:30:14 GMT -5
God does not do evil. It is impossible for God to do evil. The text that is quoted in Isaiah as far as " God creating evil " is atcually translated in Hebrew to mean" I allow calamity to happen " GOD is not evil, HE can not do evil, and HE can not tempt or be tempted with evil. James 1:13-15; 13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death Psalms 145:17 17The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works. Romans 9:14 14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. God has absolutely no evil nature within Him. What was at work is what GOD gave Adam and Eve in His sovereignty as God was the ability to CHOOSE. Adam and Even made a poor decision. Remember Eve was decevied Adam wasnt. He made a willing choice to disobey God. AMEN |
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Post by krazeeboi on May 8, 2006 14:36:44 GMT -5
What is evil? For me, I do think it's a bit inaccurate to say that God commits evil, as "evil" connotes a certain intent--which is essentially to take the spotlight off God and put it upon self. In that respect, God cannot do evil.
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Post by keita on May 8, 2006 14:56:24 GMT -5
While I agree that God certainly does not create "evil" in the moral sense, I think we are still splitting semantic hairs here.
The Hebrew word for "evil" (rah) is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible, it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked", "bad", "hurt", "harm", "ill", "sorrow", "mischief", "displeased", "adversity", "affliction", "trouble", "calamity", "grievous", "misery", and "trouble." It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV.
You say tomato, I say tomahto...
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Post by giantsdodie on May 8, 2006 15:02:42 GMT -5
God is not evil and cannot commit evil in any way shape or form. Nor can he create evil in the sense the majority of us see evil in the terms of wickedness, or unrighteousness.
God however does allow calamity to happen and he does allow adversity. which is the proper understanding and translation of that verse.
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