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Post by nina2 on Feb 24, 2008 13:31:39 GMT -5
This is a headline that jumped at me this morning: Nader announces new bid for White Housenews.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080224/ap_on_el_pr/naderHere we go again, same scenario as before.... This man will probably detract - given a chance - just enough votes to create another mess in the elections, and one that is certainly not needed at this point, was not before either. My thoughts on this, for whatever it's worth, is that: - there is no such thing as a "clean" politician. They may have had a clean record at some point, before entering the political arena, especially at that level. After? Forget it! The only way to last in the political environment is to get on with the program, whicher it is, and that's it. - Integrity is not a matter of color and I would dare to say it's not even a matter of religion. - It's really kind of easy to see what the US need now. All it takes is to look at some numbers: all of them are staggering, they have been. If there has been a landslide in the past few years, it has been a landslide down to the bottom, economically and otherwise, but especially economically, nationally and internationally. - The only real questions to ask now is: 1- What do WE need? 2- Who can begin to steer the country in the right direction? The last needed is to be sidetracked by matters or race or religion. That's the tree hiding the forest, and if we let it, it will bring about exactly the results that we don't need. This country, like any other, has a future not based on who is in whatever position, but based on what God himself has told us to do from the beginning, a long time ago. We quote it often, it has yet to be done for the results to manifest: 2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. We ought to do that at all time, us, regardless of who is what. That's the movement that the leaders of the church should initiate, not take position publicly for one candidate or the other. And maybe, just maybe, that's also what could bring the body of Christ together for good.... |
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Post by stillfocused on Feb 25, 2008 15:51:56 GMT -5
It's truth we should be praying...it's definitely on us to so.
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Post by Jasmine on Feb 25, 2008 19:50:12 GMT -5
this post reminds of the Bush/Kerry Post, and ALOT of you said the same thing. Yes, pray about who to vote for. Thats a must. Alot of peopel voted for Bush because he openely professed Christianity, however... look at the economy, and what he accomplished during his term...I don't (rather) can't see Obama or Clinton doing any worse than he has already done. At this point in the debates..im leaning towards Obama..not because he's black, but moreso because of his HISTORY. Bush fooled a lot of people because ignorant Christians fell for his " Im a man of God " rhetoric. No man of God would stand up publicly and confess that Islam is on the same level as Christianity. RANT COMING UP... My issues with Christians in general is they are ignorant. Christians tend to vote on TWO agendas. How they stand on abortion and how they stand on gay marriage. Thats it... If they are against those TWO things.. thats who we vote for... We dont investigate their economic plan, how they wll help the homeless, education. poverty, health care, how will they develop plans that will encourage people to invest, small businesses, retirement, college tuition.... NOPE.... Just abortion and gay marriage.... Oh and if they are Republican and Conservative they MUST be of God... People need to look at the issues and then got to the prayer closet and PRAY !!!!! Absolutely Rant Off lol |
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Mar 6, 2008 7:31:19 GMT -5
Obama: Sermon on the Mount supports gay civil unionsPosted on Mar 3, 2008 | by Michael Foust NELSONVILLE, Ohio (BP)--Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama defended his belief in same-sex civil unions March 2 by referencing Jesus' Sermon on the Mount and then implicitly criticizing those who view Romans as a binding teaching on homosexuality. Obama made the comments during a question-and-answer session with voters in Nelsonville, Ohio. A local pastor asked Obama how he plans to win the votes of evangelical voters when they disagree with him on moral issues. "I believe in civil unions that allow a same-sex couple to visit each other in a hospital or transfer property to each other," he said, referring to unions that grant all the legal benefits of marriage, minus the name. "I don't think it should be called marriage, but I think that it is a legal right that they should have that is recognized by the state. If people find that controversial, then I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount, which I think is, in my mind, for my faith, more central than an obscure passage in Romans. That's my view. But we can have a respectful disagreement on that." The Sermon on the Mount is found in Matthew 5-7, the passage in Romans is found in chapter 1, verses 26-32. But Obama's quote may open him up to further criticism from evangelicals, because it's a common evangelical belief that all of Scripture is inspired by God and equally authoritative -- that is, the words of Jesus in Matthew are just as inspired as the words of Paul in Romans. Although it is often argued by homosexual activists that Jesus said nothing about same-sex relationships, He in fact defined marriage as between one man and one woman in such passages as Mark 10:6-9. Russell D. Moore, dean of the school of theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, an evangelical seminary in Louisville, Ky., said he is "confused" as to how a "civil libertarian" like Obama can "on the one hand, condemn faith-based arguments when they speak to issues on which he disagrees" but then "embrace just such arguments when they seem to serve issues he is promoting." Obama, Moore said, is "framing the discussion as more than simply a prudential justice question" -- which could be seen as a change in how left-leaning politicians speak. "Conservative evangelicals and other social conservatives should not see Senator Obama's statements here as necessarily bad news," Moore said in a statement to Baptist Press. "He is acknowledging that his theological presuppositions affect the way he views governmental justice issues. We should be willing to engage that conversation, even when (as will often be the case) we have something very different to say. "Perhaps Senator Obama's rhetoric is a signal that the cultural Left is moving beyond the idea that even speaking of biblical revelation as it applies to cultural or moral issues is a violation of 'the separation of church and state.' Such a shift may or may not be 'change we can believe in,' but it is a change, one to which we should be ready to speak with civility, charity and conviction." Denny Burk, professor of New Testament at Criswell College in Dallas, said Obama is attempting to "pit Jesus’ message against Paul’s" -- a conflict, Burk said, "that neither Jesus nor Paul would accept." "The fact is that Jesus appointed Paul to bear his name before the Gentiles (Acts 9:15), many of whom were living in homosexual sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)," Burk told BP in an e-mail. "The passage in Romans condemning homosexuality was not obscure to first century readers living in the Roman Empire. It’s only obscure to modern readers when they are looking for biblical grounds to justify that which God condemns. As a matter of public policy, the best way to honor God’s intention for marriage and human sexuality is to keep monogamous, heterosexual marriage privileged in law. Unfortunately, the policies of Senator Obama fall far short of the biblical ideal." In his answer, Obama insisted he was against "gay marriage" -- a position that some social conservative leaders have questioned because Obama favors repealing the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which bans "gay marriage" on the federal level and allows states to ban such unions. Three states -- Vermont, Connecticut and New Jersey -- have enacted civil unions. But despite those laws, there is a significant movement in the Vermont and New Jersey legislatures to legalize "gay marriage." Obama also defended his backing of abortion rights. "[W]e should prevent it as much as possible by making sure that young people are engaging in responsible behavior and that we are encouraging the kinds of good decisions that prevent unwanted pregnancies and that we are encouraging adoption as an alternative," he said. "But I think that at the bottom line is that in the end I think women, in consultation with their pastors, and their doctors and their family, are in a better position to make these decisions than some bureaucrat in Washington. "That's my view. Again, I respect people who may disagree, but I certainly don't think it makes me less Christian." Obama's comments came three days after he released a 770-word letter to the homosexual community, pledging to partner with them in passing favorable laws if he is elected. "As your President, I will use the bully pulpit to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws," he wrote. "I personally believe that civil unions represent the best way to secure that equal treatment. But I also believe that the federal government should not stand in the way of states that want to decide on their own how best to pursue equality for gay and lesbian couples -- whether that means a domestic partnership, a civil union, or a civil marriage. "... I believe that we can achieve the goal of full equality for the millions of LGBT people in this country," he said further, referring to the acronym for lesbian, gays, bisexual and transgendered. "To do that, we need leadership that can appeal to the best parts of the human spirit. Join with me, and I will provide that leadership. Together, we will achieve real equality for all Americans, gay and straight alike." --30-- Michael Foust is an assistant editor of Baptist Press. I hope he was misquoted.
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Post by Jasmine on Mar 6, 2008 13:15:29 GMT -5
interesting
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Post by kitty on Mar 6, 2008 14:48:10 GMT -5
Honestly Guys,
I'm not against civil union for gays.... If they want to leave each other property and be able to sign papers that declares that they want to notified as next of kin in medical emergencies then what is the big deal with that?
And yes I think there is a difference between civil unions and marriage. I espcially think there is a difference in God's eyes as well. So I don't disagree with Obama on this point. Nor do I disagree with him on the deal about abortion...
And let's be honest. We have had Republicans who are against abortion for 2 terms and they haven't been able to change the laws on abortion. There is a reason why... Because nobody really addresses the real problems that are occuring that cause abortions to occur in the first place. And some of those reasons are quietly supported by Republicans....
Such as those thousands of business that make millions of dollars over sexualizing the very appearence of our girls... I mean seriously... I went into an dept store at once time and couldn't find one sweater that would cover their navels even in the heart of the winter!
Even now they are into the style of everything 2 sizes too small. Even if you get something extra large it is barely going to fit!
Not to mention this... I find that a lot of really young girls are getting pregnat not by teen age boys. But by those who are a great deal older than them. God forbid we actaully put R.Kelly in JAIL!!!
And look how we treat the poor in this country... many young women that go and get abortions are those who would end up as single parents. Many get an abortion simply based on the fact that having a chlid would place them in poverty. And don't let me even get started on Men living up to their responsibilities in this area....
Even many of us that are Christian can talk a good game when it comes to everyone else... But what would happen if your 11 year old girl was raped. Would you be so quick to tell her that it was God's will for her to have a baby?
Just my thoughts...
Kitty
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Post by Jasmine on Mar 6, 2008 15:02:06 GMT -5
I hear ya kitty,
if we really look back at abortions, and why there are so many Black teenage girls getting abortions, it starts with those so called "planned parenthood" facilities located inches away from black neighborhoods.
Many black teenagers are having abortions, because they are encouraged that it is Better for them, however, I disagree on many levels on what the word "better" means. They aren't prepared for the emotional distress, physical damage, and possible infections that come along with abortions.
I feel that a woman does have a right to choose, however I would prefer that she chooses Life versus anything else. I have a 3 year old daugther, and I can't honestly answer the question you've posed kitty.
a innocent child, violated, now pregnant and faced to deal with having a baby by the individual who raped her. Sad thing is, this happens across the globe on a regular, and many parents have been put in this position to decide.
I know that GOD gives life.
seed
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Mar 6, 2008 15:06:00 GMT -5
Honestly Guys, I'm not against civil union for gays.... If they want to leave each other property and be able to sign papers that declares that they want to notified as next of kin in medical emergencies then what is the big deal with that? And yes I think there is a difference between civil unions and marriage. I espcially think there is a difference in God's eyes as well. So I don't disagree with Obama on this point. Nor do I disagree with him on the deal about abortion... And let's be honest. We have had Republicans who are against abortion for 2 terms and they haven't been able to change the laws on abortion. There is a reason why... Because nobody really addresses the real problems that are occuring that cause abortions to occur in the first place. And some of those reasons are quietly supported by Republicans.... Such as those thousands of business that make millions of dollars over sexualizing the very appearence of our girls... I mean seriously... I went into an dept store at once time and couldn't find one sweater that would cover their navels even in the heart of the winter! Even now they are into the style of everything 2 sizes too small. Even if you get something extra large it is barely going to fit! Not to mention this... I find that a lot of really young girls are getting pregnat not by teen age boys. But by those who are a great deal older than them. God forbid we actaully put R.Kelly in JAIL!!! And look how we treat the poor in this country... many young women that go and get abortions are those who would end up as single parents. Many get an abortion simply based on the fact that having a chlid would place them in poverty. And don't let me even get started on Men living up to their responsibilities in this area.... Even many of us that are Christian can talk a good game when it comes to everyone else... But what would happen if your 11 year old girl was raped. Would you be so quick to tell her that it was God's will for her to have a baby? Just my thoughts... Kitty The sin is in the rape and not the child that she is carrying. It would be wrong to abort this baby. So now we would have 2 sins: rape and murder. |
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Post by kitty on Mar 6, 2008 17:38:27 GMT -5
again people... I state this... and i don't mean any offense by it.
It's all good until it's your child. and then plenty of Christians out there myself included that knows what I would do.
And lastly beofre anyone pick up some stones... I was a 10 year old who got a period. I had reached my height so my body went out because it wasn't going up.
i had men NOT BOYS but men after me. Sadly one of these men was my very own uncle...
I complained to my parents about his actions... they didn't want to hear that...
Guess what? Even after I complained to both my parents they allowed this same man to move into our home... he lived with us for over 3 years...
I developed a panic disorder and had to got to the hospital on different occasions... then went on util i left for college.
My uncle even had incest sexual magazines that he would read...
Trust me I would hate to have been raped at 10 and then have one of you guys tell me that it would be God's will for me to have a baby because most 10 years old don't want to have a baby...
i certainly didn't... and it would have developed hate in my heart to have my body raped again by try to carry a child it was never supposed to have.
So until we deal with the sin... such as sex out side of marriage, rape, mistreatment of the poor, men abdoning families, jobs that fire wome who are pregnant...
Then why act surpised that we can't get this law changed?
Kitty
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Post by kitty on Mar 6, 2008 17:44:38 GMT -5
By the way... considering that I was a child at 10... it would have really given me a warped sense of God for anyone to tell me that it was God will for me to have a baby at 10. Inspite of the fact that I didn't do anything wrong...
Just imagine that your the one tell some girl she has to have that baby... at 10... at 9... heck in PA where that happened...
The hospital called Child services on the mother because she allowed her boyfriend to rape her 10 year old daughter...
They are considering taking the baby away because a 10 year is not fit to be a parent and her mother is looking at jail time...
God Bless America!
Kitty
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Post by kitty on Mar 6, 2008 17:47:23 GMT -5
either we want to make laws to help the oppressed... Or we want to focus on telling them how to live when we miss the mark on a daily basis...
i'm going to vote for these people to be helped and not oppressed... I'm going to leave it up to God to tell them how to live.
Kitty
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Mar 6, 2008 17:57:55 GMT -5
Again, I am going to say that I would tell my child that I would not take her to get an abortion. You say that would we tell her that it is God's will for her to have the baby? Are you saying that it would be God's will for her to have an abortion?
I am sorry that you had some awful events happen in your life, I have also had evil done to and performed on me - however I don't use the events in my life to determine what would be God's will or not. I use the Word of God.
I was 19 years old when I had an abortion. It was wrong, it was murder. I also helped a friend of mine have an abortion by giving her half of the money she needed. It was wrong, it was murder. I could say that we both had justifiable reasons for not having our babies - however I will not do so.
I don't place my convictions on anyone and I don't expect anyone to place their lack of conviction in a particular area on me.
I am presently in a ministry in which we try to deal with these very issues: ABORTION, fornication, rape, incest, teen sex and pregnancy etc. I stand on what I believe and therefore will do whatever I can to address the sin.
I will continue to pray and see how the Holy Spirit will have me to vote (if at all). However, this may be the year that I don't vote at all!
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Post by Beulah5 on Mar 7, 2008 2:49:26 GMT -5
I believe i am seeing whereb both of you are coming from. However at the end of the day is what is God's opinion on the matter which seals everything.
I believe that what we could look at is the fact that biblical standards and the word of God has been chucked out of society and that is why these problems came in in the first place.
When God's word is thrown out then standards become dictated by a kaleidoscope of popular opinion no wonder our generation is so confused.
God is a God of absolutes which is what makes Him safe-He says do this and you shall live.
Emotions do not come into but that is why there is grace to help us live to the standard and if we miss it there is forgiveness of sins.
However if any nation who opens the door to spirits of perversion and murder which is what various laws do particularly those sanctioning homosexuality and abortion then that nation is going to be snowed under by a host of demonic spirits which then begin to traumatize the nation.
Homosexuality is offensive to God-He calls it an abomination and inasmuch as i believe that it is the Holy Spirit that brings conviction then neither are we to shirk from declaring the full counsel of God and that applies to me whether or not i live up to it. Abortion is no greater sin than lying except that on earth it has different consequences.
Th sanctity of life and gender are not issues that are a hit and miss. They are an affront to the very nature of God who is the very giver of life. A life does not belong to us in the first place to take it.
Paul tells us we are running a race and to run it well we are also told that narrow is the path. As our society wanders further and further from God the harder it looks to make a decision re all the issues that crop up however God's word still stands and if we remember that it is a departure from this very word that is the reason for society's mess in the first place then how much more a return to biblical standards and the word of God? Amen
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Post by kitty on Mar 7, 2008 4:31:26 GMT -5
God is a God of absolutes.... I believe this absolutely!
So let's get real on this issue... We know that God speaks directly to the issue of homosexuality. But where does God speak directly on the issue of abortion?
Could it be that some people that have a abortion are indeed committing a sin... and others are not?
Also if my 10 years is raped and she doesn't want to have a child. Guess what... I'm going to allow her to have an abortion. This isn't the same thing as a 16 year old girl that decided of her own free wil to have sex. These are two different issue... And some how... I'm not thinking that God is going to d**n to hell my 10 year old child who has an abortion.
Lastly... I assure all of you... if i was raped the very next day I would get an abortion. I would get the morning after pill. It would be a differnt case if I had sex an knew I was a willing participant.
And yes... all of you can declare what ever your thoughts and feeling are but the bottom line is this... Only God will be the one to decide if I were going to hell or not. Not any of you guys is without sin... not a single one of you.
All of us miss the mark. But when we declare that we want to make it a law that some of us have to bear the burdens the sin of others. But will all look the other way with making laws agains other sins we are crossing a line.
I mean why not still make it against the law to committ adultry... why not place all of those having sex outside of marriage in jail... Why not make porno illegal? Why is it that we are after the oppressed to place judgement on them?
This is why that law will never change... Because we encourage the chance of those events occurring. We have movies like American Beauty with Kevin Spacey voted as best movie of the year ( the one where the guy tries to have sex with his daughter's best friend...)
Then go out and pat ourselves on the back for telling some poor women who have been raped, abused, abandoned that they can't have abortions and tell ourselves that we did God's will... Did you really?
As long as this is how the Christian community as a whole votes... without making the politicans living up to the other standards of other Godly morals... Then our vote as a group will always be non- effectual because we continue to look in the wrong direction.
Kitty
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Mar 7, 2008 7:17:33 GMT -5
WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW Have mercy on us Lord!  |
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