Who is Barack Obama???

[livinganewlife]

Wow this is a tough topic, but i thought about this last night and as a parent we are to protect our children as much as we can but unfortunately we live in a world of sickos and sometimes even the best of parents fail......

With that being said; what if your 10 year old daughter was pregnant by her Father.....would your stand still be so strong that you would force this child and yourself to raise a child out of incest.......and knowing that every time you look at this child that it is a product of something very ill..........

I am not saying that God cannot use that child or that there are not examples in the Bible which shows clearly that God can turn any situation around.....

But in real life when it is YOU; would you really consider putting your child trough that trauma to give birth to a child that was fathered by her father which in turn would by YOUR Husband.....

I didn't make this up...this is a real situation that many saved mothers have had to come face to face with.....

If it was me in the above situation honestly I don't know what I would do.....yes I would pray and if GOD did not give me clear cut instructions in my spirit, heart, soul and mind than I truly believe that I would opt that my child terminate that pregnancy.....

and that's just real........

It just came to me that many people say that God will not give you more than you can bear....but in the cases of rape and incest of children (and children born as a result of rape and incest) did God really put that burden on them to bear?

In the 1800's there was no way out and there were not laws to protect women or children but in 2008 we have laws that allows us various options and we really don't have to bear the burden and shame of birthing a child into this world as a result of rape or incest.......

Disclaimer: Views posted may or may not be my opinion

[Beulah5]

If i was raped tomorrow i would keep the baby and i am honest and if my 10 year old was raped i would do the same.

As i grow in the Lord i have come to know Him intimately and i know He is a good God.

Nothing else matters. I have been sexually abused and raped, i have suffered extremely in many areas but neither am i caliming more than anyone else and yes i did struggle with why God and reconciling the hurts and disappointments of why certain things happened etc but i am now convinced beyond a doubt that God is good and that He works all things out.

If my daughter gets raped i will believe God that He is going to turn that child round and raise him up to be the next Bill Gates because that His loving kindness is unfailing to those that trust Him. Not only that but i will embrace the rapist and forgive and love him into the kingdom.

Should i abort it would still,be wrong. God's word has nothing to do with my human emotions or a humanistic point of view.

Life belongs to God and what about the aborted child? Does he/ she not have a right as well? Is it right to snuff out the life of a child and its destiny just because i feel embarassed or shamed?

Does not the amplified bible tell us that Jesus Christ was treacherously given up, He who had done nothing wrong was abused, rejected, whipped till his entrails were showing and sacrificed bare naked like a common criminal at noon day. And yet He chose the way of God which was not to return evil for evil or repay an injustice with an injustice.

Heidi Baker shared a testimony of how she was doing outreach in Hong Kong to drug addicts and prostitutes and she and her husband used to allow some od them to come and live with them and one day one of them raped her 4 year old daughter.

Then the lord asked her: would u still minister to the broken and she said yes even though it ripped her guts out. Years later she came to live in england and she said to God i have forgiven this man but i do not want to see him because my baby cries all night with nightmares. Every single night.

Guess what the lord told her: If u have truly forgiven this man you would go look for him and ask him for forgiveness because he has repented before me while u have only partially forgiven him. She said to the Lod: surely u would not ask me to do that and He said: surely i would.

So she flew out to Hong Kong and the first person she run into was this man and she knelt down in the street and asked him to forgive her and also to pray for her that she might have more love.

Back in the uk for the first time in 6 years her daughter slept through the night. Her daughter is a powerful 18 year old preacher now who has led over a hundred thousand people to Christ she is completely healed and full of the Spirit.

Last september a pastor who i knew had his brother killed by syncretistic muslims. They ripped out his tongue, cut off his lips and then proceeded to chop him into tiny bits.

A month later this pastor went into the same village where they had killed his brother and called all the murderer and militants together and he said: we are the church that loves and we love you-the presence of God fell upon these muslims and the whole village fell to their knees weeping in repentance.

I watched a video of women in the congo who had had their breats chopped off and their hands chopped and had been raped by rebels because they were christians and the share how wonderful it was to be able to suffer for the sake of Christ and how they all got together with their churches and went to see the rebels and told them that Jesus was good and that they loved them and that they were not going to abort any of the children of rape neither did they hold it against them.

These rebels dropped to the ground and met Jesus.

Indeed the cross is an offence because it leaves no room for me, my pride, my shame or what i think.

If i will choose to love in spite if i will choose to show forth Christ Jesus no matter what-whether rape, abuse, or murder there is something powerful in that which shakes the darkness and it is entirely doable because we have died with Him and live only for Him so it is no longer I that live but Christ living in me-and what will He do? Certainly not abort a child.

BTW if any of u get pregnant or have a child who is raped/know someone in that situation no need to abort. Send me the child i will find the airfare from somewhere and i am more than happy to raise that child.

God bless.

My point:

[livinganewlife]

B5, I understand your point on being rape....however my question was if your 10 year old daughter was raped by her biological father and impregnated by her father (your husband) would you still allow her to keep the child?

Trust me I know of a situation right now where the 11 year old daughter had been repeatedly raped by her biological father (her mother's husband) and got pregnant b him) and her saved, sanctified mother had to make a decision....

[Jasmine]

LANL, I believ she more than answered the question you posed.

[And Such Were Some Of You]

what Bee said, I stand on my convictions.

[kitty]

Hey Guys,

First and foremost... I truly love and respect you all. I want to state that first...
But I lovingly disagree... If you are the point in YOUR walk with God that you can over come rape, incest and abuse then wonderful. My hats off to you...

But as a Christian I don't think it should made a law that all women... all females... whether they be saved or not, adults or not, Christian or not live up to that standard... especially when it is based on YOUR belief that God will make it "ok".

Because the truth is that God is soverign... He doesn't HAVE to turn those situations around any more than HE HAS to cure anyone that is a believer of cancer. That is sugar coating a situation in which you all want to believer literally that others should have to live up to a standard and a level that you managed to achieve.

Why is it that we seem to want to have compassion for those with other sins, such as fornication... we as Christian aren't calling for this to be illegal. Yet it is a sin... Why not?

We tell ourselves that we will turn it over to God to deal with those individuals... And we find that most of us have failed in this area of our lives...

In my opinion I turn abortion over in the same way... I leave that to be an issue between an individual and God. We say God will turn it around... then why not give God the same credit to place it on the hearts of certain individuals NOT to have an abortion rather than to make it OUR decision rather than theirs.... That's only giving God credit when it fits our plan.

We say it's not God's will for a child 10 years old to have an abortion... We guess what. It wasn't God's will for her to be raped thus... In my opinion it was never God's will for her to be pregnant either...

In both cases... it other people forcing their will on a child... First the person who raped her... Then secondly the people who declare that she have to go through the pregnancy and have the baby...

And by the way... Last time I checked the governemt isn't looking to fork over money for all the counseling and medical bills it would take to help make this child ok.

By the way... there is one thing that I do think i right... That parenthood shouldn't be force on a 10 year old. In PA they took the baby away... As far as the parents... well if the person was really a good parent then her 10 year odl wouldn't have been raped in the first place. It now looking to see if the mother will go to jail. She has currently lost custody of the 10 year old as well.

Lastly... I don't believe in making a law a situation that is dependent on God's compassion which is not OURS to give.

And Trust me... some of you guys are talking a lot of hot air. If your child became pregant by rape... and tells you that she wants an abortion. Most of you all ARE NOT going to stop her. Neither could you all live with the years of damage and HATE of you that it could/would bring to you and your relationship with your child in the future.

By the way... that's also why, the parental consent laws against teen abortion fail at becoming law as well... Some lines just should never be crossed.

Kitty

[kitty]

Bee,
You are my girl and you know I love you!!!

But I'm personally not that impressed with Tammy Baker. She may have had success in forgiveness... and sure she needed a lot of it herself because she and Jim stoled millions...

Like I said before... none of us is without sin.


Kitty

[And Such Were Some Of You]

You say you respect us but then you say that we are talking a lot of hot air. We are not saying that we are without sin so I don't know why you continue to say that. If you are firm on your beliefs then fine, I will not say that you are full of hot air - but respect the fact that we stand on ours.

And believe it or not, fornication is illegal in some states - it is just no enforced. I know in SC it is illegal. But whether it is a law or not, God's Word says it is wrong.

[kitty]

And Such,

I don't mean to offend you with my statement saying that some of you are speaking hot air. I really shouldn't say it because I honestly have no idea what anybody will do in such cases.

So let me rephrase my statement to this...

I honestly believe, that some people, who believe that if they were to be placed in this kind of situation that they are 100% clear that they would be able to not go through with the abortion... Would find... that chances are if really placed in that situation that they couldn't live up to the standards and the stress of the situation if it were to really occur.

And if is their child who is already broken physically and emotionally by a rape... probably couldn't stomach the cruelity needed to force her to have the baby if she clearly stated that she didn't want to.

And the reason that I keep bring up the fact that none of us is without sin is this... There are plenty of other issue that really should be easy one for us to pass... But we fail at it. We fail at sex outside of marriage, we fail at smoking, drinking, drugs, telling lies, gossiping, strife etc.

And those are the things that should be easy for us not to do if we are claiming to be seeking to have the same heart of Jesus.

So if we fail at the easy stuff... They what makes people believe that they are going to succeed at the hard issues... And in my personal belief in regards to abortion is this one... What gives us the right to make that judgement call in the lives of others, when we can't live up to those standards ourselves by a long shot. It's easy to enforce things on others... But hard to live up to it ourselves.

And lastly... I want to make this clear... In general I do believe that abortion is wrong. I just don't believe abortion is wrong in all cases. Rape... and in the emergency of the life of the mother is another.

Just my thoughts... And to bring this back to the topic at hand... it is because of my beliefs that I have never been swayed to vote republican because I never thought their agenda was in promoting the health and care of the oppressed and the poor. Just winning the votes of Christians.


Kitty

[kitty]

Hey Bee,
I just realized that you said Hedi baker not tammy... My Bad!

Kitty

[livinganewlife]

jasmine said:

LANL, I believ she more than answered the question you posed.

Jasmine, I understand what you are saying but we (general) are speaking very abstract but what if YOU were in a situation where your daughter came to YOU and told YOU that she was pregnant by her biological father (which is YOUR husband).......

Would we (general) be so quick to say that my child would have this baby anyway.......

I was going to jump in this conversation all politically correct however after really thinking this topic over last night and placing MYSELF in the shoes of someone else...

I can't say that I would be so quick to jump on the my 10 year child WON'T have an abortion band......

Yes we all trust in Jesus and abortion is not clearly defined in the Bible but neither is high blood pressure medicine and yet how many of us take high blood pressure medicine?

[giantsdodie]

This is where I stand on this issue..

God is the creator of life...

No life comes into being or existance without HIS permission...

If God allowed it even in the case of rape... and HE allowed that sperm to bring life to that egg..

Then that means IMO that GOD had a purpose and a plan for that life...

I dont believe we have the right to terminate that Life that GOD allowed..

This is coming from a person who has been a part of two abortions..

[Beulah5]

God bless you Kitty you know i love you!!!!

I understand what you are saying that in the face of tragedy reconciling our emotions to what we might believe is not always easy and many of us struggle with that.

The point though that i believe we are missing is: EVEN IF I ABORTED it is wrong.

God's word is clear that life belongs to Him. His word is not subject to circumstances unfortunately. For instance we are told to forgive those that have hurt us.

Now we all know what injustice there is in the world and yet we are commanded to forgive and love one another.

That is my point. Now if i fall short of that standard there is the grace of God because one man has fulfilled the law and He only however i find it odd that in our pursuit of Christ things like overcoming rape, murder or incest is like a hats off situation whereas actually that should be the normal church life.

Can we imagine what would happen in the world in terms of revival if christians forgave one another? If we dropped our lawsuits against each other and if like those parents whose daughter was murdered we went and found the killers and publicly forgave them what a harvest of souls would come to the kingdom!!!

The only thing that Jesus said was the mark of the christian was love. Passionate, radical love in spite of hatred and injustice. Forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness matter of fact the Bible describes love as taking no record of wrongs. It means i forgive like it never happened.

Yes that may be a process depending on where one is but we are to choose love. I mean i am simply saying what Jesus said this is supposed to be the normal christian walk and yes for those who dont there is grace the lord does not cast out anyone.

All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory-myself chiefly but even if i dont follow God's word to the letter His word still stands true that life is sacred.

Now lanl in answer to the question yes i will. When u truly experience the death walk and the cross all ur natural affections go. Things dont bother u like they used to. I have recently gone through what someone will view as extreme testing but i barely noticed it because Christ visits me. He takes me up into His glory realm-i have seen His face and kissed His feet and so everything in the world pales in comparison.

But not that i am boasting in myself but in His ability within me and us to love to the uttermost. He is the treasure in earthen vessels and what we cannot do He is certainly able to achieve through us.

Many believers stay in an infantile position because we believe we have rights. I have been there myself-rights to hold offence, rights to hold on to hurts, rights to mete out justice ourselves whereas He is the one who vindicates.

Having said that back to your statement Kitty i am not the one who is assuming that God is going work things out-HIS whole word is full of it!! lol How His mercies are towards those that trust Him even in the darkest times of their soul, How He works everything out for the good of those that love Him.

That is scripture-not Beulah. The promise of restoration is a very real one-just read Isaiah 61, the story of Joseph, the Israelites in egypt or let us bring it home-our own personal experience with the Lord.

None of us are the people that we were when we got saved. God has brought us far yes we are certainly not there yet but we can definitely look back and say He has been good so in light of that why is it different in abortion or murder or anything?

We claim the verse in Joel and Samuel about the cankerword and recovering all that was taken from us so since when did God's word become a case by case situation.

Yes in the face of extreme pain we dont always choose the way of love-that might be me HOWEVER THAT STILL DOES NOT NEGATE THE FACT THAT LIFE IS SACRED, IT BELONGS TO GOD AND HE ALONE HAS A SAY OVER IT. If i do not hold up to the standard that i am spouting on about IT STILL STANDS.

Untill we hold on to the absolutes of God's word society and the so called revival we are waiting for is nowhere going to happen because God has exalted His name above His word. We have christians who do not believe in Genesis 1, we hav christians who have all manner of thoughts that are contradictory to God's word because we 'live in a new age'.

However He Himself said that not one jot of His word will pass away so yes-homosexuality is still wrong even if my brother was to turn into one tomorrow, abortion is still wrong even if my 5 year old daughter was raped and got pregnant.

Anyone who is a good student of history would realise the lowering of these standards this attitude that God's word works on a case by case standard or depends on circumstances is exactly the cause behind genocide, the world wars etc

Without God human life is useless. Our dignity comes because we were created in the image of God so even if someone is not saved i treat them with dignity because He is still created in God's image. Throw God and His word out or decide that it depends on who or what or were then where is man's value? He is simply a beast/machine out there so it becomes perfectly logical for a leader to gas his own people if they are being a nuisance to the national vision.

It becomes logical for someone to eliminate all the jews because in his reality only the blond eye fair hair people are worthy. Slavery becomes ok because my black brother is an animal so he deserves the treatment i give him.

Anyone with a passionate interest in understanding why murders, genocide, abortion etc are common will find that it all started with this lowering of God's standards, this thing of what works for me might not work for you because this is my reality is exactly why so many young people and adults are in mental institutions.

Where there is no standard chaos reigns. The alternative to that is a return to the Bible. The whole Bible not what we feel, not how we understand it but the plain truth written in it. That God is king, He made us for Himself and He is going to judge the world.

That is something we forget that there is going to be a judgement and in that judgement there is no i felt, i think, that was my reality. We were not made for ourselves but made to declare the praises of Him who has delivered us from darkness into light.

If people who endured the holocaust and watched their whole families raped, cut up and used in human experiments can forgive. If Jesus Christ who endured the worst injustice could forgive then frankly as far as i am concerned there is nothing absolutely nothing that should keep us from doing the same.

Problem is we dont trust God. Perhaps we dont know Him well enough to trust Him i dont know saints but i personally i am on a Love Revolution trail yes i may not be good at it but i see that there is no other way than that which Jesus told us which was radical, unlimited, bottomless love which is christianity 101 and that includes loving, forgiving and not aborting the child that my 5 year old daughter is carrying by her father.

Selah

[Nikkol]

I haven't read all the responses...... don't have much time to do it like I use to....... but this is what I have to say...

There comes a time in our lives where we begin to stop looking at things based on our emotions and based on our feelings. For we know that our feelings will come and go and they probably 7 out of 10 times don't line up with the word of God.

Insofar as if your daughter gets raped at 10, if I'd let her keep the child. I'd have no other choice. I can stand on what God says about killing or based on what I feel is right. Now in some of these cases, a girl may choose to give the child up for adoption. But to say that it's okay to kill a child based on the circumstances doesn't teach consistency. We're in a day and time by which we need something that's constant... for us, we know that's God who is the same yesterday, today, and forever more........

to be cont'd

[livinganewlife]

But politically do we have the right to enforce our beliefs upon every person in America and make it a law?

That is the basis of my statement.......personally and truly without God, without his grace and guidance I don't know if I could humanly allow my 10 year old daughter who was raped to give birth to a child....now after much prayer and consulting with God I am certain that the Lord will sustain me and give me the strength to overcome this situation....

Do we as saints not identify with those who are lost? Do we as saints forget our own humanity and not create laws that will protect all humanity?

If the abortion law is removed than who deals with that grandmother, mother and child that is left in turmoil emotionally and physically to raise that child...... Who counsels them? Who provides for them and I am not talking about Saved Sanctified folks.....

I am talking about regular jane doe......who may or may not know God and may not have a belief in God at all....

And we know the churches are not outreaching enough..........