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Post by Nikkol on Dec 12, 2008 7:59:37 GMT -5
Single pastors dating was recently mentioned.... this actually was something that was discussed this week on The Michael Baisden show and is a question on his one website (iseecolor.com).
Anyways, people have different views on even asfar as if a pastor should be single or not? What are your thoughts... I'll give my view in a few.
Side Note: This question may be somewhere else on this board, but i didn't feel like looking....lol.
Looking for a good conversation without people taking anything personal. <<smile>>
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Post by livinganewlife on Dec 12, 2008 10:49:37 GMT -5
Pastors should be married.....
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Post by stillfocused on Dec 13, 2008 3:16:06 GMT -5
If God has spoken that they should marry then they should marry. I find it that Christ never married and depending on who you talk to..Paul didn't unless you consider the fact that he was a Pharisee. My question is this does the Bible specifically state that a Pastor should marry ? As we all know the gift to be a Pastor is given by Christ..and I have yet, to read that because one isn't married that they are disqualified from being a Pastor.
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Post by Nikkol on Dec 15, 2008 9:04:34 GMT -5
If God has spoken that they should marry then they should marry. I find it that Christ never married and depending on who you talk to..Paul didn't unless you consider the fact that he was a Pharisee. My question is this does the Bible specifically state that a Pastor should marry ? As we all know the gift to be a Pastor is given by Christ..and I have yet, to read that because one isn't married that they are disqualified from being a Pastor. I never heard anyone call Jesus nor Paul a "pastor". 1 Timothy and Titus both indicate the qualifications for a pastor/bishop/overseer. |
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Post by anointedteacher on Dec 15, 2008 9:53:49 GMT -5
Marriage is not a qualification, according to the Word of God.... It is man's doctrine.
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Post by Nikkol on Dec 15, 2008 11:07:22 GMT -5
Marriage is not a qualification, according to the Word of God.... It is man's doctrine.  Not seeing man's doctrine below but rather scriptures from the Word of G-d.... However, if you can validate your above statement with scripture, let's discuss. Let's be Bereans. <<smile>> 1Ti 3:2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Tit 1:6 - 9 6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. |
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Dec 15, 2008 11:09:11 GMT -5
What is the difference between Bishop and Pastor according to the scriptures? In Ephesians when Paul lists the commonly called "five fold ministry" offices pastor is listed (apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers) and no requirement that he/she be married is mentioned. Bishop is not listed. (Neither is Deacon, which is the other instance where Paul says "should be the husband of one wife" 1 Tim 3:12) Of course, some demoninations use this as a "no remarriage clause" because he says "the husband of one wife."  Now that I'm typing this I'm wondering myself why Paul only listed qualifications for Bishops and Deacons and why in Ephesians he only refers to Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers. Could it be that the Bishops and Deacons (positions or offices) were gifted to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and/or teachers? ? See Ephesians 4:7-13 7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men.11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Does this question make sense to anyone besides me?
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Post by anointed on Dec 15, 2008 11:47:39 GMT -5
My question is if a single pastor is content with his singleness at a season of his life, why is it important that he be married? I believe we should not only look at what God is laying as a foundation (just giving out a bunch of scriptures) but why he is laying it as a foundation (getting understanding of these things).
Gap,
Your question does make sense as many ministry offices can be overlapped/intertwined depending on the nature of one's call.
I'll be watching this post.
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Dec 15, 2008 11:59:20 GMT -5
I wanted to add, traditionally I am among those who have been taught that yes, a man of God should be married BEFORE he is ordained a pastor. For many years it was just like, errr, comment knowledge, something you were just suppose to know.
Among the reasons given were:
1) the bishop in 1 tim 3:2 includes pastors
2) the scripture says it is nto good for man to be alone
3) his focus should be on the ministry, feeding the flock, not on having to search, seek, wait, and pray for a wife - that will take attention away from the ministry
4) he needs a help meet to take care of him, his home, his needs, so his focus can be on the ministry
5) he should have a companion to minister to women one on one, a partner in the work that God has chosen for him to do
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Post by anointedteacher on Dec 15, 2008 12:50:57 GMT -5
Marriage is not a qualification, according to the Word of God.... It is man's doctrine. Not seeing man's doctrine below but rather scriptures from the Word of G-d.... However, if you can validate your above statement with scripture, let's discuss. Let's be Bereans. <<smile>> 1Ti 3:2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Tit 1:6 - 9 6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. So you are saying a bishop must have kids too?... in the same verse "Having faithful children"... If a man of God can't have children (plura), he can't be a bishop....accordig to your interpretation... Right? They are not required to be married, but if they are married.... they can only have one wife.... They are not required to have children, but if they have children, the children must be faithful... |
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Post by anointedteacher on Dec 15, 2008 13:12:01 GMT -5
Pastors and Bishop are not the same ministry.... One is desirable and the other isn't...
You can desire to be a bishop (I Tim. 3:1).... and prepare yourself to meet the requirement... but Pastors are gifts from Jesus to the church (Eph. 4:11) and He didn't layout special requirement except to be called, appointed and anointed. Yes, pastor should be trained, disciplined and prepared for the work.. No he don't have to be married.
Bishop are over seer of the church or churches
Pastors are shepherd...
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Post by Nikkol on Dec 15, 2008 13:42:06 GMT -5
I thought that there was a pretty good article about this found HERE. Since it's not long, I can post it as well: Sometimes denominations distinguish the terms "Elder," "Bishop," and "Pastor," claiming that bishops are different from elders which, in turn, are different from pastors. But the Bible often uses different terms to refer to the same thing.
Consider the evidence from Bible texts.
Acts 20:17,28-30
V17 -- Paul is addressing the elders of the Ephesian church.
V28 -- The Holy Spirit made them bishops (ASV; "overseers" -- KJV). Their job was to shepherd (NKJV; "feed"-- KJV; "tend" -- ASV) the flock. This uses the verb form of "pastor".
V29,30 -- Their duty to act as shepherds (pastors) is further described.
Clearly, all three terms are here used to describe the same men doing the same job in the local church.
Titus 1:5-9
V5 -- Titus was told to appoint elders in every city.
V6-9 -- Qualifications immediately follow for elders. We are told they must have these qualities "for" (because) bishops must be the kind of men described in the qualifications given.
Clearly, the qualifications are being given for the one office being discussed, but the terms "elder" and "bishop" are here used interchangeably to refer to that office. Further, the work these men do is described in v9ff, and it is the same work Acts 20 said elders or bishops do, acting as shepherds (pastors) -- i.e., protect the flock from false teachers.
1 Peter 5:1-3
V1 -- Peter is addressing elders.
V2 -- Their work is to shepherd (NKJV; "tend" -- ASV; "feed" -- KJV) the flock. Again, the verb form of "pastor" or shepherd is used. They also serve as overseers (NKJV; exercise or take the "oversight" -- ASV, KJV). This is the verb form of bishop.
Clearly "elders," "pastors," and "bishops" in these passages are used interchangeably, referring to the same men in the same work. All three terms refer to an office in the local congregation, and are therefore identical in extent of jurisdiction (cf. Acts 20:17,28 to I Pet. 5:1-3; etc.). Their qualifications and work are identical.
Interestingly, the footnote on 1 Timothy 3:1 in the St. Joseph New Catholic Edition of the Bible agrees that Paul made no distinction between elders and bishops: "Bishop: represents a Greek word meaning 'overseer,' and 'presbyter' another Greek word meaning 'elder.' In St. Paul 'bishop' and 'presbyter' seem to be used convertibly, and probably priests are here included under the term 'bishops.'"
It is a mistake for denominations to distinguish the terms as if they apply to different offices.
Note that it follows that preachers (evangelists) are an entirely different work from elders/pastors. Note Eph. 4:11. Special qualifications are required of elders/pastors/bishops which are not required of preachers (1 Tim. 3:1ff; Tit. 1:5ff).And I think that we (general) have had many discussions by which the "hierarchy" in general in church has gone to levels I don't think were ever meant to be. Part of this could be based on who he is writing to. In a "generic" example. It's like I'm writing to someone in my church indicating that I need them to see how we baptize in Jesus name VS me telling you (general) that we baptize by immersion. Depending on one's level or what we may have already discussed, it's possible to give "different" (word used VERY LIGHTLY) information that is related. (make sense?) This is why usually in discussions, we should put everything of a discussion together as it is the full word that gives us guidance. Im' not talking about remarriage....lol. (Insider joke) |
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Post by giantsdodie on Dec 15, 2008 14:48:12 GMT -5
We need to keep some things in the Biblical context of the times. It wasnt uncommon for a man to have MULTIPLE wives. I believe the scripture was saying that a man could not be a polygamist and be a pastor or bishop.
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Post by Nikkol on Dec 15, 2008 14:49:51 GMT -5
Not seeing man's doctrine below but rather scriptures from the Word of G-d.... However, if you can validate your above statement with scripture, let's discuss. Let's be Bereans. <<smile>> 1Ti 3:2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Tit 1:6 - 9 6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. So you are saying a bishop must have kids too?... in the same verse "Having faithful children"... If a man of God can't have children (plura), he can't be a bishop....accordig to your interpretation... Right? They are not required to be married, but if they are married.... they can only have one wife.... They are not required to have children, but if they have children, the children must be faithful... Hence the purpose of discussion..... let's be Bereans and discuss..... |
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Dec 16, 2008 7:09:03 GMT -5
We need to keep some things in the Biblical context of the times. It wasnt uncommon for a man to have MULTIPLE wives. I believe the scripture was saying that a man could not be a polygamist and be a pastor or bishop. I thought that polygamy was an old testament practice, not a new one, but that does does make a whole lot of sense. |
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Not seeing man's doctrine below but rather scriptures from the Word of G-d.... However, if you can validate your above statement with scripture, let's discuss. Let's be Bereans. <<smile>>
