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Post by krazeeboi on Oct 24, 2007 13:51:53 GMT -5
It's been news for about two weeks now that Bishop Arthur Brazier, pastor of the 20,000+ member Apostolic Church of God in Chicago, is leaving the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, the oldest Apostolic (Oneness) Pentecostal organization in the United States with which he has been affiliated for decades. One of the issues that Bishop Brazier had with the PAW was the doctrine of eternal security. Brazier (and other PAW pastors) teach the doctrine, while the denomination itself doesn't hold to that doctrine. Read the entire article here. I had actually heard also that Bishop Noel Jones, also affiliated with the PAW, left for a little while but has since returned. |
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Post by newmercies on Oct 24, 2007 17:51:50 GMT -5
It's been news for about two weeks now that Bishop Arthur Brazier, pastor of the 20,000+ member Apostolic Church of God in Chicago, is leaving the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, the oldest Apostolic (Oneness) Pentecostal organization in the United States with which he has been affiliated for decades. One of the issues that Bishop Brazier had with the PAW was the doctrine of eternal security. Brazier (and other PAW pastors) teach the doctrine, while the denomination itself doesn't hold to that doctrine. Read the entire article here. I had actually heard also that Bishop Noel Jones, also affiliated with the PAW, left for a little while but has since returned. I don't understand, "Eternal Security" Ive been with the PAW since I was 16 years old and I was never taught eternal security or once saved always saved??? Maybee im not understanding this......I do agree there is alote of problems in the PAW each district is different and have different issues.....My Paster has mentioned before that we might not be with the PAW for very much longer either because of some of the issues going on in our district....... |
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Post by newmercies on Oct 25, 2007 3:03:04 GMT -5
Some of the pastors do subscribe to the doctrine of eternal security, but it is a minority. I was actually told that there was debate on the issue a few years back to determine whether or not the organization as a whole would subscribe to it or not. This is the first ive heard of this krazeeboi it must be the minority cause, at least in my district The West Virginia and the Eastern Tennessee Council District 23 and the Ohio Paw Council they don't teach the eternal security. . That just goes totally against the word of God. |
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Post by kanyon on Oct 25, 2007 8:52:55 GMT -5
Some of the pastors do subscribe to the doctrine of eternal security, but it is a minority. I was actually told that there was debate on the issue a few years back to determine whether or not the organization as a whole would subscribe to it or not. This is the first ive heard of this krazeeboi it must be the minority cause, at least in my district The West Virginia and the Eastern Tennessee Council District 23 and the Ohio Paw Council they don't teach the eternal security. . That just goes totally against the word of God. Better duck Jessie, you gonna get hit..half the forum believe one and the other half the other.  |
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Post by newmercies on Oct 25, 2007 18:54:39 GMT -5
This is the first ive heard of this krazeeboi it must be the minority cause, at least in my district The West Virginia and the Eastern Tennessee Council District 23 and the Ohio Paw Council they don't teach the eternal security. . That just goes totally against the word of God. Better duck Jessie, you gonna get hit..half the forum believe one and the other half the other. Bro. kayon " what you all wouldn't hurt lil ole me" ;D I don't want to start any trouble I don't mean any disrespect at all. Im sorry. |
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Post by Beck on Oct 30, 2007 5:26:50 GMT -5
It's been news for about two weeks now that Bishop Arthur Brazier, pastor of the 20,000+ member Apostolic Church of God in Chicago, is leaving the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, the oldest Apostolic (Oneness) Pentecostal organization in the United States with which he has been affiliated for decades. One of the issues that Bishop Brazier had with the PAW was the doctrine of eternal security. Brazier (and other PAW pastors) teach the doctrine, while the denomination itself doesn't hold to that doctrine. Read the entire article here. I had actually heard also that Bishop Noel Jones, also affiliated with the PAW, left for a little while but has since returned. Do you know if he will start his own organization? |
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Post by Rachel2 on Nov 16, 2007 17:01:43 GMT -5
I am a former member of the PAW. I left sometime ago because God was calling me elsewhere.....No hard feelings or anger behind my leave. I still give my former pastor the utmost respect. Now, this eternal security must be sometihing new for the PAW like Newmercies said because I never heard of this until now. Isn't this the same as what Carlton Pearson is teaching....that everybody is going to heaven no matter what? If not, eternal security definitely comes in a close second. I don't believe in once saved always saved, even if you backslide no matter who is teaching it. The bible clearly states, "Leviticus 19:1-2 (New Living Translation) Holiness in Personal Conduct
1 The Lord also said to Moses, 2 “Give the following instructions to the entire community of Israel. You must be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy."If eternal security means that you automatically go to heaven, why even mention backsliding? To me this means you can do whatever you want and don't have to worry about going to hell. So why would I as a single person go without sex, getting drunk, lying, stealing, cheating or doing anything else that sinners do? What this really says to me is that the devil has infiltrated and deceived the church. He is attacking and pulling down the "heads" of the church. And we know where the head goes, the body follows. If there was ever a time to get a personal relationship with Jesus and know Him for yourself...that time is DEFINITELY NOW!!! The Church is in SERIOUS, SERIOUS TROUBLE.  |
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 17, 2007 15:12:31 GMT -5
There is a thread on here about the doctrine itself, which is often distorted by most people who don't understand it. So I would advise you to study up on it before rendering a judgment concerning it.
And for the record, those who hold to the doctrine of eternal security absolutely believe in holiness.
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Post by chosen on Nov 20, 2007 4:16:12 GMT -5
I found a little history of the PAW on one of our websites.
G.T. Haywood, first presiding bishopThe Pentecostal Assemblies Of The World holds that its origin can be traced to the Azusa Street Revival (1906-1909) under the leadership of William J. Seymour.
Bishop G.T. Haywood was never a member of the Church Of God In Christ or The Assemblies of God he was a member of the P.A.W. since 1911. The P.A.W. was never a part of the Church Of God In Christ it came strictly from the Azusa Street revival In 1906.
The PAW was officially organized in 1919. For historical clarification it must be noted that the Church Of God In Christ Inc. was originally founded in Lexington, MS. in 1897 as a holiness church by Bishop Charles Harrison Mason, Elder C.P. Jones, Elder J.E. Jeter and Elder W.S. Pleasant. During this time the Church Of God In Christ fellowship of churches were united by the doctrines of sanctification, and holiness.
In 1912 a group of primarily white Christian believers broke association with the Church Of God In Christ primarily due to racial barriers, laws of segregation, and disputes among leadership and congregants. This group would go on to form the Assemblies Of God.
The late Bishop Morris E. Golder wrote: "The original organization bearing the name of the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World came into existence in the year of 1906 in the city of Los Angeles, State of California." The late Bishop G. T. Haywood concurs with this fact, writing in the Voice In The Wilderness in 1921: "It (The Pentecostal Assemblies of the World) was started in 1906 in Los Angeles, California."
This was also the position asserted by Bishop Ross Paddock, the former Presiding Bishop of the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World. He declared that after one year of being organized, the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World had its first annual business meeting and that, at the same time, it was Trinitarian in its doctrine and liturgy of water baptism.
It was in this context of varying ideas, personal differences, doctrinal and other conflicting elements that not only was the need of organization seen, but the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World in its original state (1906) came into existence. However, it was not until 1919 that it became incorporated and took on the identity of being an Apostolic "Oneness" body of ministers and believers.
According to Dr. David Bundy, a Pentecostal historian at the Christian Theological Seminary, as early as 1907, a white Baptist minister in Los Angeles, was preaching non-Trinitarian water baptism in the Name of Jesus. According to Dr. Deborah Sims LeBlanc, William and Maggie Bowdan, the parents of former Assistant Presiding Bishop Frank Bowdan, were baptized in the Name of Jesus after the Azusa Street Mission Revival (1906-1909).
As an outgrowth of the Asuza Street movement, a fellowship of "pentecostal assemblies" met in October 1907 in Los Angeles, and followed-up with similar meetings in subsequent years. This fellowship was known as the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World. J.J. Frazee (the PA of W's first General Superintendent) and G.T. Haywood participated in these meetings.
In 1913, during the Assembly Of God General Assembly, a great controversy arose regarding the so-called "new issue" that water baptism was to be administered in "the Name of Jesus Christ" rather than in "the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost." The majority of the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World community accepted both the liturgical change and a "Jesus Only" or Oneness approach to understanding God.
Among those who accepted the Oneness doctrine in the early period was Elder Garfield Thomas Haywood, an African American minister from Indianapolis, who pastored a very successful Pentecostal church on Indianapolis that had, in 1913, between 400-500 members. The racial make up of the congregation was about 50% African American and 50% white. The name of the church was Christ Temple Apostolic Faith Assembly.
Christ Temple was one of the largest Pentecostal churches and congregations in the world. Bishop Haywood was rebaptized in the Name of "Jesus Only" in approximately 1913. Subsequently, he rebaptized his entire congregation in the Name of Jesus.
Bishop Haywood played a tremendous role in the early days of the Pentecostal movement. His association within the establishment of the Assemblies of God and influence to the United Pentecostal Church are noteworthy.
Bishop Haywood was born in Greencastle, Indiana, and when he was three years old, his parents moved to Indianapolis. He would spend the rest of his life living in Indianapolis. He began pastoring in 1908, multi-gifted, a professional cartoonist-artist, Gospel song writer, poet, author of several books, teacher, and preacher. He was speaker at many of camp meetings. He traveled extensively throughout the country. He also traveled to the Middle East, Palestine, the British West Indies, and Canada. Prior to becoming the Presiding Bishop of the Pentecostal Assemblies of World, he held the office of General Secretary. He was by far the most sought after speaker, teacher and preacher in the Pentecostal and Oneness movement during his lifetime as a minister.
In 1913, hundreds of preachers attended a camp meeting in Arroyo Seco, California. The truth of the Oneness of God was given, accompanied by the new revelation of baptism in the name of Jesus. Evangelist R.E. McAlister was selected to preach on the subject of water baptism. He began with the accepted baptismal message and spoke on the different modes of baptism, mentioning triune immersion by which the candidate was immersed three times face forward. He summed it up by “they justify their method, by saying that baptism is in the likeness of Christ's death, and make a point from scripture that Christ bowed his head when he died.” that to them, it was necessary to baptize once for each person in the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). He concluded his message abruptly by saying that the scriptural answer to this was that the Apostles invariably baptized all their converts once in the name of Jesus Christ. He ended by stating the words Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were never used by the early church in Christian baptism. McAlister was taken aside at the time and told not to preach this new theory about the “baptismal formula.”
However, many hearing McAlister speak received the new revelation of the name Jesus. Three important men attended and were influenced by this new revelation, these were Frank Ewart, G.T. Haywood, and Glenn Cook.
By the spring of 1914, Ewart accepted the new found truth and became one of its leading advocates. Ewart reached the conclusion that the singular name in Matthew 28:19 was Jesus Christ. He came to believe that the one true God who had revealed himself as Father, in the Son, and as the Holy Spirit was none other than Jesus Christ. To support this view, he pointed to Colossians 2:9, which states that in Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Ewart explained his discovery to other Pentecostal ministers, some of whom rejected his teaching, but others enthusiastically embraced it. On April 15, 1914, Ewart rebaptized Glenn A. Cook, his assistant and a veteran evangelist of the Azusa Street Mission, in the name of Jesus Christ, and Cook rebaptized Ewart. This would set in motion an issue that would divide the Pentecostal movement between the Trinitarians and the Jesus Name only, or Oneness believers. After Ewart and Cook were rebaptized, they began to rebaptize thousands of Pentecostals with the shorter formula “in Jesus name.” Claiming those baptized with Matthew 28:19 were not valid, it must be performed “in the name of Jesus” (only). Anyone baptized in the threefold titles of “Father, Son and Holy Spirit”, must renounce that baptism and be rebaptised with the Name of Jesus said over them, before they can be regarded as biblically baptised.
From 1913 to 1914, for one year, the battle raged within the Association regarding the Godhead and the "new issue." Consequently, in 1914, the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World experienced its first split. Essentially, there were two questions around which the debate was centered: (1) "Is there one God, or are there three distinct persons in the Godhead? and (2) How then, should an individual be baptized? Should one be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, or should one be baptized in the Name of Jesus?"
In 1914, after one year of this intense and bitter debate throughout the Association, those leaders and individuals who embraced the Trinitarian concept (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) pulled out from the Association. Many of the whites who left the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World at this time would eventually form the Assemblies of God organization. During the transition period about one year, they received their ministerial credentials from the Church of God in Christ organization.
In 1915, the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World was reorganized in Indianapolis, Indiana, at the Christ Temple Assembly of the Apostolic Faith, where Bishop G. T. Haywood was the pastor. Bishop Haywood became the organization's first Presiding Bishop at that meeting. During that meeting, the organization's headquarters were established in Portland, Oregon.
In 1918, a merger between the PA of W and the General Assembly of Apostolic Assemblies (founded January 2, 1917 GAAA) under the chairmanship of J.J. Frazee occurred in St Louis, Mo. This merger adopted the name Pentecostal Assemblies of the World. Later that year, E.W. Doak became Chairman and W.E. Booth-Clibborn (son of Kate Booth-Clibborn and grandson of the Booths who founded the Salvation Army in London) became Secretary. This interracial organization kept the name of The Pentecostal Assemblies of the World. At this time, the PAW was the largest (and almost only) Oneness Pentecostal organization.
In 1924, white leaders of the organization separated from the organization. Their separation was the result of JIM CROW, the enforcement of racial separation policies in the United States at the dawn of the twentieth century. The white leaders formed their own organization which subsequently became the United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI). The UPCI maintained an interracial climate, however, African-American leadership was nonexistent.
Another organization was established as the Pentecostal Church, Inc, led by white leaders only.
On January 25, 1919, the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World headquarters moved from Portland to Indianapolis, and formally incorporated in the state of Indiana. The incorporators were E. W. Doak, G.T. Haywood, and D.C.O. Opperman.
The title of "Bishop" was first used by the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World in 1925, when it established a Board of Bishops of five members. Of the five members, one of them, G. T. Haywood, was elected as the Presiding Bishop. Haywood was a real stabilizer for the organization. In the days of the separation of the Trinitarian from the Oneness brethren, Bishop Haywood was a pioneer of the Oneness message. He was an excellent preacher and a teacher beyond comparison.
In 1932, the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World was reorganized and elected Elder Samuel Grimes of New York, as the new Presiding Bishop. They then elevated Elder Grimes to the office of Bishop. Bishop Grimes was born in Barbados, British West Indies. He was saved under the ministry of Elder W. W. Rue. He was also greatly influenced by Bishop G. T. Haywood. Bishop Grimes served as a missionary to Liberia, ppWest Africa]], along with his wife. At this time, he was elevated to the office of District Elder. He also founded and established the Eastern District Conferences, which consists of 13 Conferences (Councils). Grimes also became the second editor of The Christian Outlook, which is the official magazine of the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World.
Bishop Grimes served in the office Presiding Bishop for 35 years (1932-1967)which is longer than any individual to date. It was during the time that he was serving that the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World's procedures regarding the filling of pastoral vacancies was established.
In 1945, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ and the Pentecostal Churches, Inc. merged and formed the United Pentecostal Church. This Oneness group is the largest numerically of all the Oneness groups. Historically, it has been predominantly white. The attitude which has been displayed by its membership has been one of a superiority to the few African American members that became a part of it and to be African American leaders who were their counterparts in the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World. Those African American ministers who were a part of the organization were not listed in the regular section of the directory with the white ministers. They were listed in the back of it in a section labeled "the colored branch."
[edit] PAW Leadership
Though the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc., has general ties to William Joseph Seymour since it is a denomination in the Classical Pentecostal Tradition, Seymour was not the founder of PAW. To the contrary, after its initial organization in 1906, the initial re-organizers were, D.C.O. Opperman, E.W. Doak, and Garfield Thomas Haywood who served as the initial incorporators. J. J. Frazee (occasionally incorrectly reported as 'Frazier') was elected the first general superintendent. The head of the organization held the title of General Elder or General Overseer until 1925, when it was changed to Presiding Bishop. At the same time they established an executive board consisting of five members (Bishops). G. T. Haywood, one of the five members, was elected as the Presiding Bishop. This is in slight contrast to the current Board of Bishops consisting of 12 formal members, and also includes Lay-Directors from various regions of the United States, and Emeritus Bishops who once served, but are either semi or fully retired.
The following is a listing of the Bishops which have served as head of the organization and includes their race (countering those who have attempted to state that the PAW has continued to be a "black-only" organization since the split of 1924):
Bishop Horace E. Smith, MD, current presiding bishopGarfield Thomas Haywood-black (1925-1931)
Samuel Joshua Grimes-black (1932-1967)
Ross Perry Paddock-white (1967-1974)
Francis L. Smith-black (1974-1980)
Lawrence E. Brisbin-white (1980-1986)
James Archie Johnson-black (1986-1992)
Paul A. Bowers-black (1992-1998)
Norman L. Wagner-black (1998-2004)
Horace E. Smith, M.D.-black (2004-Present)
Organizational Structure is currently divided by state or country, called a council that is headed by a Diocesan Bishop, who is appointed by the Bishop's Board. A Diocesan Bishop can have as many as three assistants, called Suffragan Bishops. These Suffragan Bishops hold only the authority given them by the Diocesan Bishop. Typically they will have authority over a region or part of a state. Reporting under the Suffragan Bishop is the office of District Elder, who oversees and assists the Elders (Pastors and their churches) in his district. This could be as few as three churches and with no limit on maximum number, but typically less than 25.
[edit] Creed, Discipline, And Doctrine
Excerpts from the Minute Book of the P. A. W., Inc.
Our Creed, Discipline, Rules of Order and Doctrine is the Word of God as taught and revealed by the Holy Ghost (John 14:26; 1 Corinthians 2:9-13).
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for Doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect thoroughly furnished unto all good works." - 2nd Timothy 3:16-17
Record of Membership The names of members are kept on record in Heaven (Luke 10:20). For it is written, "The Lord shall count, when He writeth up the people, that this man was born there" (Psalms 87:6). All must be "born of water and Spirit" in this dispensation, if they desire their names to be written in Heaven (Hebrews 12:22-23). However, for the matter of legal record we recommend that the name of each individual who is recognized as being subject to the rule of a local organization should be kept in the record of such congregation.
God's Standard of Salvation We earnestly contend for God's standard of Salvation. In the Word of God, we can find nothing short of a Holy, Spirit-filled life with signs following as on the day of Pentecost (Mark 16:16-17; Acts 2:4, 8:14-17, 9:17-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6; Romans 12:1-2; Hebrews 12:14; Matthew 5:48; 1 Peter 1:15-16).
Repentance and Remission of Sins The only grounds upon which God will accept a sinner is repentance from the heart for the sins that he has committed. A broken and a contrite heart, He will not despise (Psalms 51:17). John preached repentance and remission of sins be preached in His name, beginning at Jerusalem (Luke 24:47). Peter fulfilled this command on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38).
The Godhead We fully believe in the mystery of the Godhead. We believe that Jesus was both human and divine, and further, that the Godhead be understood to mean all of the fullness of God (Colossians 1:19, 2:9). We believe that Jesus was Mary's son and Mary's God, Creator and creature, God manifest in the flesh; that the flesh of Jesus was the same as ours with the exception that it had no sin; that Jesus was the Eternal Father made visible, apart from whom there is no God. We believe that at the final consummation of all things there will be only one God, and that will be our Lord Jesus Christ.
Divine Healing The Lord is our Healer (Exodus 15:26; Psalms 30:2-3). The Lord made our bodies. Should it be thought a thing incredible that He can heal us? With His stripes we are healed (Isaiah 53:4; Matthew 8:14-17; John 14:12; Mark 16:18; James 4:14).
The Coming of Christ That Jesus is coming to earth in person is a doctrine clearly set forth in apostolic times. Jesus taught it. The Apostles preached it, and the saints accepted it (Matthew 24:1; Acts 1:11, 3:19-21; 1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 11:26; Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17; Titus 2:13-14).
Offering The old method of begging, rallying, giving socials, shows and concerts to carry on God's word is not God's plan. We believe that if the people of God would obey His word there would be plenty on hand to carry on His work without scheming and grafting. "Tithing, and freewill offering" is God's Plan (Genesis 15:20, 28:22; Malachi 3:8-12; Exodus 25:2, 35:5, 21, and 29).
Translation of the Saints We believe that the time draweth near for the coming of the Lord to make a change in the present order of things, and at that time all the righteous dead shall rise from the graves, and "we that are alive" and living righteous before God shall be translated or "caught up to meet the Lord in the air" (Matthew 24:36; Luke 17:20 and 37; 1 Corinthians 15:51 and 54; Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:13 and 17).
The Millennium Moreover we believe that the distress upon the world is the "beginning of sorrows" and will become more intense until there "shall he a time of trouble such as there never was since there was a nation even to that time,' (Matthew 24:3-8; Daniel 12:1), and that period of tribulation will be followed by the dawn of a better day on earth, and that for one thousand years there shall be "peace on earth, good will toward men" (Revelation 20:1-5; Isaiah 65:17-25; Matthew 5:5; Daniel 7:27; Micah 4:1-2; Habbakuk 2:14).
Final Judgement When the thousand years are finished there shall be a resurrection of the dead, who shall be summoned before the Great White Throne for their final judgement, all those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life shall be cast into the Lake of Fire, burning with brimstone, which God hath prepared for the devil and his angels. Satan being cast in first (Revelation 20:7-15; Matthew 24:41-46; Revelation 21:8).
Wholly Sanctified Life We believe that in order to escape the judgement of God and to have the hope of enjoying the glory of life eternal, one must be thoroughly saved from his sins, wholly sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost. And that a wholly sanctified life is the only true standard of Christian life (Hebrews 12:14; 1 Peter 1:15-17).
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Post by kanyon on Nov 20, 2007 10:35:29 GMT -5
Thank you Jessica for that..lots for an old man to ponder on.
Thot's...It was Gods intention that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit bless the world and unite the Body of Christ and not perpetuate the racial divisions that were prevalent at that time. The flesh won that one.
On a lite note, I think some of the attitudes in the non black/native american churches are hereditary, namely the turning and looking under the armpits to see who just walked in. LOL ;D sorry, I couldn't resist.
Very good information Jessica, thanks. I'll have more thoughts later.
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