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Post by stillfocused on Nov 19, 2007 16:22:39 GMT -5
It seems that many have had problems with "siliencing" and most the people I have heard talking about this and practice are those who had been affliated with COGIC or now say they are non deminational..yet, the practice and hold fast the regulations they learned from the Pastors they were under at that time.
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Post by Jasmine on Nov 19, 2007 16:31:08 GMT -5
ASWSOY...don't even get started on COGIC I recently became a member of a church that was suppose to be non denominational, according to the Pastor's wife who teaches the new members class, however, they now proudly proclaim to be COGIC. Needless to say, I feel as if I have been highjacked. I never intended to become COGIC because I have known how they operate for years. Their traditions are nothing but bondage and manipulation....yes, I said it. ;D I was seriously contemplating leaving the church, but the Lord told me to "stay put". So out of obedience I will see where this takes me. I've been there one year Oct. 8. But, God also made it clear that their traditions were not His will for my life. When it comes to the things you were expected to report to the pastor...my favorite phrase is this....
I gave my life to God, not the pastor.[/b] At my church recenlty we had the church/pastoral anniversary. Both are foreign to me because the church I came out of we never celebrated either. Anyway, we were asked to give $1,000 if you were a married couple or $500 if you were single. I gave $15.00 which was all I could afford. $500 was never a consideration. Then they made statements like, "we saw who was here and who wasn't"....so what. The people don't belong to the pastor, they belong to God. Then when the pastor and wife are out of town, they tell the people in charge to let them know who did not show up for service......What? We are grown people, not children and if the people have a heart for God they will come anyway. If not, then it's not the pastor's problem. Needless to say, I am not fairing well in this environment. So I come to church, pay tithes and offering and mind my own business. [/quote] Thats a Far stretch, and I will even go as far to say that the church you attended may have operated in bondage and manipulation, but many cogic churches that do not. Traditions are just that...tradition. Traditions are not mandates from God. Any pastor can deviate from them as they choose. Except for calling women pastors/elders/ministers. etc... But all and all..one bad wendy's can make you dislike Wendy's alltogether..but that doesn't mean all Wendy's are bad. |
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 19, 2007 16:40:26 GMT -5
This is true Jasmine, that is why I said that I know that it wasn't the entire denomination. I don't believe they are ALL that way but I can say that I don't want to become a part of the COGIC denomination again.
That happened to be my first experience with a COGIC church and was the 1st church I attended upon salvation. It was only the grace of God that I continued WITH HIM because honestly I had had enough with the control and manipulation issues.
The sad part about my experience was that I allowed myself to go through it even after I questioned it. I even prayed and ask the Lord to show me how to be submissive since it seemed that I continued to miss the mark. It appeared that I was the only one who saw a problem with this and therefore seemed to be the "black sheep of the congregation". It is amazing that even after I left the church I was still being talked and preached about and banned from the church. Some people will not even email me back...lol. However, after I left there were one or two who contacted me (my cell number and email address was the same for awhile) to tell me that they finally left the church and it was "shown" to them that I was not wrong and that a lot of it were lies that was told about me. DUH!!!
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Post by Jasmine on Nov 19, 2007 17:16:26 GMT -5
This is true Jasmine, that is why I said that I know that it wasn't the entire denomination. I don't believe they are ALL that way but I can say that I don't want to become a part of the COGIC denomination again. That happened to be my first experience with a COGIC church and was the 1st church I attended upon salvation. It was only the grace of God that I continued WITH HIM because honestly I had had enough with the control and manipulation issues. The sad part about my experience was that I allowed myself to go through it even after I questioned it. I even prayed and ask the Lord to show me how to be submissive since it seemed that I continued to miss the mark. It appeared that I was the only one who saw a problem with this and therefore seemed to be the "black sheep of the congregation". It is amazing that even after I left the church I was still being talked and preached about and banned from the church. Some people will not even email me back...lol. However, after I left there were one or two who contacted me (my cell number and email address was the same for awhile) to tell me that they finally left the church and it was "shown" to them that I was not wrong and that a lot of it were lies that was told about me. DUH!!! Absolutely, Honestly I believe that is why there is such a broad range of denominations, and non-denominations..I don't adhere to everything Cogic says or does, but after attending a couple of churches...cogic is the place to be for me. I've never had to deal with what you had to..and I can attribute that to being placed under good leaders, who are after the heartbeat of God. For any person to endure such..is a travesty, whether its under cogic leadership, or any denonimation/non-denom period. |
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Post by Rachel2 on Nov 19, 2007 17:27:25 GMT -5
ASWSOY...don't even get started on COGIC I recently became a member of a church that was suppose to be non denominational, according to the Pastor's wife who teaches the new members class, however, they now proudly proclaim to be COGIC. Needless to say, I feel as if I have been highjacked. I never intended to become COGIC because I have known how they operate for years. Their traditions are nothing but bondage and manipulation....yes, I said it. ;D I was seriously contemplating leaving the church, but the Lord told me to "stay put". So out of obedience I will see where this takes me. I've been there one year Oct. 8. But, God also made it clear that their traditions were not His will for my life. When it comes to the things you were expected to report to the pastor...my favorite phrase is this....
I gave my life to God, not the pastor.[/b] At my church recenlty we had the church/pastoral anniversary. Both are foreign to me because the church I came out of we never celebrated either. Anyway, we were asked to give $1,000 if you were a married couple or $500 if you were single. I gave $15.00 which was all I could afford. $500 was never a consideration. Then they made statements like, "we saw who was here and who wasn't"....so what. The people don't belong to the pastor, they belong to God. Then when the pastor and wife are out of town, they tell the people in charge to let them know who did not show up for service......What? We are grown people, not children and if the people have a heart for God they will come anyway. If not, then it's not the pastor's problem. Needless to say, I am not fairing well in this environment. So I come to church, pay tithes and offering and mind my own business. [/quote] Thats a Far stretch, and I will even go as far to say that the church you attended may have operated in bondage and manipulation, but many cogic churches that do not. Traditions are just that...tradition. Traditions are not mandates from God. Any pastor can deviate from them as they choose. Except for calling women pastors/elders/ministers. etc... But all and all..one bad wendy's can make you dislike Wendy's alltogether..but that doesn't mean all Wendy's are bad. [/quote] What part of what I said do you think is a far stretch? Everything that I said is true. Of course, all COGIC churches are not the same. I also understand that traditions are just that, traditions. Obviously, I am missing something here. Please explain your point. |
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Post by Jasmine on Nov 19, 2007 20:23:51 GMT -5
Thats a Far stretch, and I will even go as far to say that the church you attended may have operated in bondage and manipulation, but many cogic churches that do not. Traditions are just that...tradition. Traditions are not mandates from God. Any pastor can deviate from them as they choose. Except for calling women pastors/elders/ministers. etc... But all and all..one bad wendy's can make you dislike Wendy's alltogether..but that doesn't mean all Wendy's are bad. What part of what I said do you think is a far stretch? Everything that I said is true. Of course, all COGIC churches are not the same. I also understand that traditions are just that, traditions. Obviously, I am missing something here. Please explain your point. You said you are referring to COGIC...and as my post stated...cogic consists of more than just the church you attended and maybe your leader was just Manipulative...and trying to place the members in bondage. Actually I though my post was pretty clear. |
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Post by chosen on Nov 19, 2007 21:43:36 GMT -5
I concur with B5....in my case it was a male pastor and his wife treating me like I was invisible because I would not quit going to a secular college where God had sent me in order to go to a so-called bible college that the pastor has created in the church. We had gotten along just fine up to this point. BTW, I had already gone to an accredited bible college before I came to his church and he knew this. I even had a dream where the pastor's wife chased me out of the church and threatened me never to come back. Now most people would say that was just a dream, however, the dream lined up with how they were treating me in reality. It got to the point where they would be standing less than 1 foot away from me and when I would speak to them they acted like I was invisible. And one Sunday the pastor was looking at me from the pulpit with such fury in his eyes until it frightened me. After the dream, I left the church and never looked back. This is why I call these silent treatment tactics witchcraft and manipulation. There was nothing "humbling" about the way they were treating me. It was sheer anger because they could not control me. I also learned from that experience that when some pastors tell you to seek God and do what He tells you....what they really mean is it's okay to do what God tells you to do as long as it lines up with what they want you to do. If it doesn't then you have a problem with the pastor.  Miss Rachel as I was reading your post I kept hearing " The Spirit of Jazebell" If im wrong Please Let me know. IT is definitly a Spirit of control. Many Blessings Jessica |
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 20, 2007 9:00:58 GMT -5
Side Note: It is important to understand that not all COGIC churches are about money. That's a stereotype. I was brought up in a "baptist church" and I was told that baptist folk smoke drink and gamble which isn't true for all people that go to a baptist church. I just don't want us to begin to label whole denominations when there's just some bad apples. Although there may be many, lets try not to proverbially hang the whole organization out to dry.
RACHEL2: Good to see you again.
I think that silencing in biblical order is fine. The issue is that since there is no unity within the "body of Christ", if you do something wrong at one church and are sat down biblically, you can just go somewhere else and do the same thing and noone will question it. The accountability that was back then (based on the scripture) would cause people to make a decision to do what was right or not. Nowadays, people can do what is wrong and be comfortable in it.
Additionally, although there may be people who have abused "silencing", I do think that there are times when it should be done..... I just wish that it would be uniformed.... I know that Calvary Chapel has it very uniformed by which they send information to the churches in reference to the questionable behavior.
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Post by livinganewlife on Nov 20, 2007 10:07:33 GMT -5
I am really shocked that we have members on this board that would make blanket statements about an entire denomination based upon your personal experience with one church affiliated with a particular organization.
Let us be mature in our posting and please do not stereotype and entire denomination based upon your personal experience….
To prove how we (general) need deliverance from "church hurt" the statements made about COGIC are like me (a black woman who has been hurt by men) saying that all black men are thugs, don’t take care of their children and dog women out because that is my personal experience or it is like me generalizing all white Pentecostals a overzealous fanatic snake handlers ad we know neither of the above statements are true….
We have people on this BB from all walks of life and I am just asking that everyone please be mindful when posting and to post all things in love…. You never know who you are on this BB talking with…..
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 20, 2007 10:07:35 GMT -5
Help me out sis nikkol,
what are the scriptures for this. i am not asking to debate but because i really didn't know that there were any.
thanks
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Post by stillfocused on Nov 20, 2007 12:14:46 GMT -5
LANL wrote:
Lanl..I must agree that we must careful and what is posted in some instances. Yet, this act of silencing is very confusing to those who have never heard, who have experienced, and yes, who have been told to shun others...I see no Christ in that. I have asked for biblical references yet, no one can come with one that justifies this act. I know myself it was at hands of a Pastor..who said he the church was nondenominationl..but, their practices where those of the Christ of God in Christ. I have nothing against that..yet, what I have seen and heard is too different things and to be honest I found the leadership to be very controlling..especially when it came to the teachings on submission and servanthood. I was over the intercessory prayer ministry..yet, no one from leadership or the congregation could find the time to pray..unless the Pastor told them to. I saw alot of things being micromanaged and everyone wanting to over a "department" yet, they were not willing serve anyone or to commit to anything else unless it was their "baby".
I have come in contact with some of the sweetest people who attend COGIC on this board..LANL, Nikkol, Jasmine, Krazeeboi..you guys have taught me alot. The hurt is real..the pain goes deep when someone tells you tha you cannot praise the Lord, you can't pray, you can't worship, and you have been sat down from ministry. With someone having the nerve to say..we don't want you to say nothing..don't speak.. the unwritten rule of "shunning" the others are not going to speak to you..they will walk by you as if you're not there. Sadly, in shunning in me..they shunned my neice who was only a baby..there is no Christ in that kind of behavior. If the purpose is to humble and humilate..then that's out of order..we really don't take the passages of the scripture that say "woe to the shepherds" very seriously. The word of God says the that tradition makes the word of God of no effect...that says to me that those are meaningless because they purpose no life...they in some only bring about and condone the dying of one's spirit. Touch not my anointed and do my prophets..used to control and manipulate..
If you have biblical references to justify this act..please list them. Because the is a practice that is used within COGIC it's the only time people hear of it or experience it Please understand that everyone will notknow the practices and bylaws of your afflications. I have seen people ex-communicated..confusion !! All because they would not submit to do something that was unethical concerning a church's finance..this was an Elder and he was sat down..and this person eventually left the church..yet, still loving the Pastor all the same.
And the other case because a young woman..received a message from the Lord and spoke to the Pastor..this family were called witches and that they were Jezebels..time out for the madness. God is not just speaking to a few..he is speaking to anyone who purposes to hear his heart and walk in a way those pleasing to him and no one else..may we all have a spirit to hear what the spirit of the Lord is speaking.
By the way..I, too am attending a church the is non denominational..yet, I too can see some of the COGIC structure along with the Apostlic structure. Adjusting is not always easy..yet, when you know that it's for the purposes of the Kingdom it becomes easier each day..
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Post by livinganewlife on Nov 20, 2007 13:38:23 GMT -5
`Let me start my statement by saying this " I have been in COGIC all of my life....my family were one of the original families to start the organization with Bishop Mason and I have an uncle on the General Board and four family members on the Board of Bishops and a family member on the National Trustee board, and family members with high ranking positions in the church, and I am married to a COGIC Pastor"
With all of that being said in no way am i declaring to be the authority on COGIC however, I am not a newcomer to the COGIC by no stretch of the imagination.
I have NEVER heard of someone being sat down in the church unless they were caught in a sinful act or bringing strife and confusion to the Congragation....
For example I have seen young ladies sat down because they were pregnant out of wedlock and I have seen ministers sat down because they were either caught in adultery or accused of some sex scandals in the church....
I have never experienced anyone sat down in a church because they didn't tell the Pastor how much money they make and neither have i ever seen someone sat down because the Pastor or Pastor's wife didn't like them.
I don't know if it is scriptural however to be a pregnant out of wedlock young lady directing the choir is not an image any Christian church would want to project and neither would I want the choir director wearing a split in her skirt showing her thighs.
I can't say what each situation was or give the how's and whys as to why some people are sat down but in my experience this is the first time I am hearing of cases such as Rachel and ASWSOY...
But i will say this and I am not trying to be funny...but I do recognize and realize that those in COGIC who are considered the "upper echelon" leaders of the church operate different than most traditional churches....
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 20, 2007 13:53:11 GMT -5
I am really shocked that we have members on this board that would make blanket statements about an entire denomination based upon your personal experience with one church affiliated with a particular organization. Let us be mature in our posting and please do not stereotype and entire denomination based upon your personal experience…. To prove how we (general) need deliverance from "church hurt" the statements made about COGIC are like me (a black woman who has been hurt by men) saying that all black men are thugs, don’t take care of their children and dog women out because that is my personal experience or it is like me generalizing all white Pentecostals a overzealous fanatic snake handlers ad we know neither of the above statements are true…. We have people on this BB from all walks of life and I am just asking that everyone please be mindful when posting and to post all things in love…. You never know who you are on this BB talking with….. I believe that I made it very CLEAR that it was not EVERY COGIC that I was referring to. And my "joke" about being "delivered" from COGIC is just that ...a joke. However, when one is in bondage, deliverance is needed. |
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 20, 2007 14:58:39 GMT -5
Here's one view ("PNT commentary) (from mt 18)
15. If thy brother. Compare Mark 9:38, and Luke 9:49. Brother in the church. Sin against thee. Personally. Injure you or do you wrong. Shew him his fault. Go to him privately and have a kind, brotherly talk over the matter, and try to show him his fault. Gained thy brother. For thyself, by restoring good feeling; for God, by leading him to a sense of sin and repentance.
16. Take with thee one or two more. If the private interview is of no avail, take other brethren as witnesses and intercessors. These witnesses, hearing the matter talked over, can report the facts.
17. Tell it to the church. If neither effort is of avail, then report it to the church for action. This is the second instance in the New Testament of the use of the word "church." The first is in Matt. 16:18. If he refuse to hear the church. The admonition and entreaty of the church through its elders. The church has power to admonish and to exclude. Let him be to thee as a heathen man and a publican. Have no religious fellowship with him, more than you would have with a heathen, or a publican. The publicans were usually apostate Jews. The orthodox Jews had no social intercourse with heathen or publicans.
I shall return with more....
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Post by livinganewlife on Nov 20, 2007 14:59:58 GMT -5
I am really shocked that we have members on this board that would make blanket statements about an entire denomination based upon your personal experience with one church affiliated with a particular organization. Let us be mature in our posting and please do not stereotype and entire denomination based upon your personal experience…. To prove how we (general) need deliverance from "church hurt" the statements made about COGIC are like me (a black woman who has been hurt by men) saying that all black men are thugs, don’t take care of their children and dog women out because that is my personal experience or it is like me generalizing all white Pentecostals a overzealous fanatic snake handlers ad we know neither of the above statements are true…. We have people on this BB from all walks of life and I am just asking that everyone please be mindful when posting and to post all things in love…. You never know who you are on this BB talking with….. I believe that I made it very CLEAR that it was not EVERY COGIC that I was referring to. And my "joke" about being "delivered" from COGIC is just that ...a joke. However, when one is in bondage, deliverance is needed. I really wasn't talking about your particular statement...i just didn't want this topic to turn into a "bash COGIC" topic..... thats all sis no hard feelings  |
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