How Many Wills Does God Have?

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

I believe that there is only one will of God. I would love to have a biblically based discussion on this point. I've heard many things such as perfect will, divine will, permissive will, sovereign will, but isn't there only one will and then what he allows?

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

p.s. Since this is a bible study thread, let's look up some scriptures that pertain to God's will and see if we can answer the question that way.

I'm working and posting so it'll take me a few, but I'll be back with the ones I base my view on that there is in fact only one "will of God".

Come on bible scholars, let's share ..........

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

Jun 19, 2008 9:19:12 GMT -5 @true said:

In all honesty God didn't tell us everything about himself in the bible. We can all thumb through the word and still not come up with the correct answer.
He has a will for my life and will for the bride in general etc.


God gave us what we needed to know, not all there is for us to know. That's why he can speak to us in his word and he can speak to us without using his word(bible).

So this shouldn't just be a biblically based discussion. JMO

God's word and God's voice are one. So, if He speaks to me, I can find confirmation in his word. If I find something in his word, I will find that his voice will confirm what is written.

One reason I posted this in this section of the board was because it is the bible study thread and I wanted to see what scriptures are there that support the belief that God has all these different wills.

I am always excited when I discover something in the word of God, even if before I thought one thing, when I learn what the bible says, when I learn "what saith the scriptures" as my old Bishop use to say, it makes me glad that at least now I know.

[vindicated]

Hey Gap, correct the spelling of MANY in the subject

I never heard the term, "permissive" will until my adult life. And it has never set right in my spirit. The main reason is because whenever people have used it they have always used it in the context of justifying disobedience. There has never been a time when permissive will has been used without there being disobedience involved.

So they'll say something like, "it may not be God's perfect will for you to marry that person, but He'll permit you to marry that person if that's what you're determined to do". And that statement has sent more people down the isle to marry devils just because that's what they were determined to do.

There's not even any scripture to remotely back up something called a permissive will of God. He KNOWS what He wants for us and it's covered in His Word. Of course every scenario is not spelled out in the Word but it is covered in the Word. His Word is is perfect will. Any adding to, taking away from, misinterpreting, is on us, not on Him.

I also believe that most people who now use the phrase use it because they heard it preached or taught by someone. But honestly in line with the flow of scripture in general and as a whole it can't be justified.

Permissive will actually just adds up to say that there are times when God will allow you to sin or disobey. Or like it's okay with Him sometimes, and that's not the nature of God. He hates sin.

He'll work with what we give Him but we should never get it confused. God hates sin and there is not a single grey area in the bible about that.

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

Jun 19, 2008 9:31:19 GMT -5 @vindicated said:

I also believe that most people who now use the phrase use it because they heard it preached or taught by someone. But honestly in line with the flow of scripture in general and as a whole it can't be justified.

Yes, that's what happened to me. When I returned to the body of Christ, the assistant pastor had one group believing this while the pastor was trying to help rightly divide of truth on this very subject.

Jun 19, 2008 9:31:19 GMT -5 @vindicated said:

His Word is is perfect will.

I totally agree with this. God's word is his will. God's voice will never contradict his word. The Lord our God is one. His will, word, voice, spirit, anointing, power, gifts, wisdom, knowledge, etc.... are ONE. All standing in agreement all confirming and backing up the other.

How do the scriptures support the doctrine (teaching) that God has more than one will? Where is it noted that what he ALLOWS to happen is his WILL?

[vindicated]

THE DEVIL IS A LIE!!!! I WAS HALF WAY THROUGH TYPING MY MESSAGE AND MY PINKY HIT THE WRONG BUTTON AND NOT ONLY WIPED OUT MY MESSAGE BUT CLOSED THE WINDOW!
OMG. So I'mma start again. UNDER THE BLOOD. (you lying devil)

I believe that the lie of permissive will actually came from Grace teaching. The early American church was so strict that they sent you to hell for just about anything. Then when people began to allow the Holy Ghost to teach us we learned that God has not dealt with us according to our sins, but instead has been gracious and merciful to us. Before then we were going to bed thinking we were going to die in our sleep and wake up in hell.

But when we saw that we could sin and God didn't send a train along to flatten us or allow some catastrophe to come along and all but wipe us out, instead of seeing it for what it really is, God's Grace, we saw it as getting away with sin. Out of our hard headedness we created the "permissive will" teaching.

The term "permissive will" gives us a scapegoat. If it gets to be too much of a task walking in obedience, we can lean on the lie of permissive will and then expect God to come along and bless it.

See, God is so good at being God that even when we sin, once we come back to Him and repent, He can take that very sin and work such a wonder with it that we tend to think He wanted us to sin in the first place or that it was His will for us to sin in the first place. That's what makes Him GOD.

It's never in the will of God for us to sin. But because He knows we will He has made provision for our sins, (forgiveness, the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin, the Word that washes us, an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ)

God does not have a permissive will but he has given us FREE WILL. And we use that free will to decide whether or not we will obey Him. He just happens to be GOD ENOUGH to work with whatever we decide. No matter what we do His perfect will will be done in the earth but because we have been given a free will, His perfect will won't necessarily be done in our individual lives because it is up to us to submit to His will. It's not the will of God that any should perish but people perish every day because of their choices.

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

I agree with everything you've stated.

I would add that these other wills are not just talked about in terms of sin and disobediance, but also in terms of options.

We think God is like us, having a number one thing we want, and then other things besides. Well, I really want Honda, but I'll take a Toyota or Volvo. See, but God is not like that. He has a will, and then what he allows.

It's God's perfect will for me to take this job, or go to that church, or that college, but I chose x-y-z and he still blessed me because it was his permissive will.

So, whatever he permits, or allows becomes a new and separate will from his perfect will, which is I guess like the number one thing he wants.

I don't ever use the term perfect will. God is perfect so his will is perfect, but once again, it's only one will.............

[vindicated]

Lamentations 3:22
It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

23They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

24The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.

[Jasmine]

God does not have a permissive will but he has given us FREE WILL.

without a permissive will, there would be no free will.

[kitty]

Ok Guys,
I do believe that there is a such thing as God's perfect will or His permissive will. I also refer to it as His soverign will. I say that because thre are some things that God allows to happen that go beyond my understanding.

Let me give an example of what I believe to be God's soverign will...

Let's look at a case of murder... We know it it not's God's will for anyone to be murdered. Thou shall not kill is clear enough...

But let's look at what can happen. In one case a robber can come to a scene on an innocent victim... pull out a gun and shot directly at the person and miss. Maybe God's hand shielded this person... maybe the gun jammed, maybe other people were coming to help the victim and the robber got nervous. But for whatever reason... God spared the victim's life.

But then there can be the exact same scenario and the victim get's killed. We know just by the basis that God said thou shall not kill that it is not His perfect will for this to happen to the victim. We know the robber has just committed a sin. But why has God allowed this person to die and the other one to live? In this case I say that God's soverign will occured.

Kitty

[kitty]

Oh yeah...

Here would be what I would consider to be an example in the bible of God having two wills...

The story about king Hezikel sp? who was told that he was going to die. Then the king went and prayed to the Lord about his pending death... Then God granted him more time.

Here would be another possible example... the story of Jonah... God had him tell the people that God's wrath wsa heading their way. Granted I believe God always knew that they would repent. I believe Jonah knew that they would too which is why he didn't want to deliever the message.... Yet if they didn't God was going to wipe them out....

I will say this guys... I do understand where Gap is coming from when she says that she believes that there is just one will. In one sense I believe that because there is only ONE thing that actually occurs. I am also of the belief that God already knows exactly what is going to happen already.

He has stated that seeral times in the bible.... So to me... when I refer to God's perfect will or His soverign will what I am really referring to is not the choice between A and B that God will pick from because He knows what He's going to do... But rather how He feels about the action that is taking place. Does it bring Him gladness, joy or anger and sadness.

Kitty

[Jasmine]

IMHO,

PERFECT, DIVINE, and SOVEREIGN all conclude to the same conclusion, when relative to speaking on "the will of God". No matter how we say it, use it, or understand it, the will of God is perfect, it's divine, and it's Sovereign.

God's permissive will is something different. God permits us to follow our own choices, even when he does not approve of them, thus his "permissive will".

I also truly believe that although we may fall into the "permissive will", it is not necessarily a sinful state. When we are walking in the permissive will, we are NOT in the perfect will of God, HOWEVER being that GOD is merciful, and full of grace, ALL things will work together for the good of them who love the Lord, and are called according to his purpose.

So even though a person may not be in the perfect will of God, it will all work out for the good, because God promises are YES!

[vindicated]

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:8-10 (in Context) 2 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter)

This is his will, that all come to repentence. People are murdered, robbed, raped abandoned etc because of sin. Sin is not the will of God so when these sins are comitted they are comitted OUTSIDE the will of God. So there's no permissive will that says one dies and one doesn't. The crimes happen because of sin. And because there is sin in the world people die, people commit crimes.

GOD IS SOVEREIGN. Ultimately we can't go to Him and question Him about why He does things the way He does.
Why He uses one as opposed to another. Why one dies and another lives. Why He created one for one purpose and not another. We can't question Him as if He's unjust.

Romans 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?Romans 9:19-21 (in Context) Romans 9 (Whole Chapter)


As far as why bad things happen, we don't have to question Him because we already know why, Because sin is in the world.

[vindicated]

Jun 19, 2008 12:02:19 GMT -5 Jasmine said:

God's permissive will is something different. God permits us to follow our own choices, even when he does not approve of them, thus his "permissive will".

I also truly believe that although we may fall into the "permissive will", it is not necessarily a sinful state. When we are walking in the permissive will, we are NOT in the perfect will of God, HOWEVER being that GOD is merciful, and full of grace, ALL things will work together for the good of them who love the Lord, and are called according to his purpose.

So even though a person may not be in the perfect will of God, it will all work out for the good, because God promises are YES!

This is a description of GOD'S GRACE.

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

Below are just a few scriptures that describe and refer to God's will as is found in God's word. Not once does it refer to more than one will. Not once does God word refer to God's will in any other way than 'God's will' or the 'will of God' in the singular, not the plural.

Please help me find any other way in God's word that he (all scripture is God breathed) refers to his own will as anything otherwise.

It's a long list, but I hope it blesses you as reading it did me.

GAP

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John 6:40
"Believe, and You are Saved"
For this is the will of God, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
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Ephesians 1: 5-12
"Praise His Glory"
He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace which he lavished upon us. For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him, according to the purpose of Him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will, we who first hoped in Christ have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of his glory.
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Ephesians 5:1-20
"Live in His Grace"
Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person (such a man is an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Ephesians 6:5-8
"Be Obedient"
Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ; not in the way of eye-service, as men-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to men, knowing that whatever good any one does, he will receive the same again from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.
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2 Corinthians 8:1-7
"Give Graciously"
We want you to know, brethren, about the grace of God which has been shown in the churches .... for in a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of liberality on their part. For they gave according to their means, as I can testify, and beyond their means, of their own free will, begging us earnestly for the favor of taking part in the relief of the saints--and this, not as we expected, but first they gave themselves to the Lord and to us by the will of God. Accordingly we have urged Titus that as he had already made a beginning, he should also complete among you this gracious work. Now as you excel in everything--in faith, in utterance, in knowledge, in all earnestness, and in your love for us--see that you excel in this gracious work also.
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1 Thessalonians 5:11-18
"Pray Unceasingly"
Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing. But we request of you, brethren, that you appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instruction, and that you esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Live in peace with one another. We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone. See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all people. Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
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1 Peter 2:15
"Make Continued Progress"
For it is God's will that by doing right you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men.
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1 Peter 4:1-7 and 19
"Keep Sane and Sober"
Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same thought, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so as to live for the rest of the time in the flesh no longer by human passions but by the will of God. Let the time that is past suffice for doing what the Gentiles like to do, living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry. They are surprised that you do not now join them in the same wild profligacy, and they abuse you; but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead, that though judged in the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like God. The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane and sober for your prayers....Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will do right and entrust their souls to a faithful Creator.
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Colossians 1:9-12
"Bear Fruit"
For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding. And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way, bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
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Colossians 4:12
"Be His Servant"
Epaphras, who is one of yourselves, a servant of Christ Jesus, greets you, always remembering you earnestly in his prayers, that you may stand mature and fully assured in all the will of God.
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1 John 2:15-17
"Do Not Be Conformed to this Age"
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
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Romans 8:27-31
"Hear Your Calling"
And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who can be against us?
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Romans 12:1-21
"Do not repay Evil for Evil"
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will. For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully. Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
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Hebrews 10: 35-39
"Be Tough, but Patient"
Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised. "For yet a little while, and the coming one shall come and shall not tarry; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him." But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and keep their souls.
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Mark 3:35
"Be a Part of the Family of God"
Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."
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Matthew 18: 11-14
"Try to Save Your Brother"
For the Son of Man is come to save those who were lost. What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. So it is the will of my Father who is in heaven that not one of these little ones should perish.
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1 Thessalonians 4:1-8
"Abstain from Immorality"
Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
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Ephesians 5, 15-17
"Be Wise"
Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.