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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 18, 2009 23:53:15 GMT -5
Biblical anti-Obama slogan: Use of Psalm 109:8 funny or sinister?Psalms 109:8 says, 'Let his days be few; and let another take his office.' The citation is being passed around the Internet as a rallying cry against President Obama.By Tracey D. Samuelson | Contributor/ November 16, 2009 edition There’s a new slogan making its way onto car bumpers and across the Internet. It reads simply: “Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8” A nice sentiment? Maybe not. The psalm reads, “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.” Presidential criticism through witty slogans is nothing new. Bumper stickers, t-shirts, and hats with “1/20/09” commemorated President Bush’s last day in office. But the verse immediately following the psalm referenced is a bit more ominous: “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.” The slogan comes at a time of heightened concern about antigovernment anger. Earlier this year, the president’s senior adviser, David Axelrod, said that Tea Parties could lead to something unhealthy. In September, authorities shut down a poll on Facebook asking if President Obama should be killed. Still, that doesn’t push the Psalms citation into the realm of hate speech, says Chris Hansen, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). The use of Psalm 109:8 is ambiguous as to whether its users are calling for the President to serve “only one term, or less than one term,” he says. Deborah Lauter, director of civil rights at the Anti-Defamation League agrees that the bumper sticker falls within acceptable political discourse. For it to be considered hate speech, it “would advocate actual violence or cite scripture that was more clear in its message.” But that doesn’t mean that it’s completely innocent. “Are we concerned about real hostility towards [President Obama]? Absolutely,” says Ms. Lauter. “Is this a part of that movement? It may be, but in terms of this message itself, we would not criticize it.” “The problem is you don’t know if people who are donning that message in a shirt or on a bumper sticker are fully aware of the quote or what follows. Obviously that message makes the ambiguity disappear. If they’re just referring to him being out of office, that’s one thing. If they’re referring to him being dead, that’s so offensive. It’s protected speech, but it’s clearly offensive.” For many, the slogan is just a humorous way express disapproval for President Obama. It’s been tweeted and retweeted by Obama critics with messages like “too funny” and “an excellent prayer for America.” Twitter user Cheri Douglas felt compelled to share the psalm with others. Reached by phone, she said she found it on website while searching for Bible passages relating to leadership – a topic on which she writes, speaks, and consults for a living. Ms. Douglas was unaware of the verses that followed the ones she referenced and doesn’t think that those who shared the psalm wish the President harm. “I don’t believe there’s Christians who wish him ill will,” she says. But Douglas does say she’s unhappy with the president and used the psalm to convey that she’d like him to serve only one term.
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Post by anointedteacher on Nov 19, 2009 11:08:14 GMT -5
It called witchcraft!!! Many witches uses the Psalm to speak curses toward other.... This is a hateful thing to do... What they are throwing at the President may be reversed.... They will reap what they have sown... I am angry, because they call themselves Christian and bringing shame to the Body of Christ.
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 19, 2009 11:24:09 GMT -5
At the same time, as we probably ALL know, people use scriptures out of context. So it could be that they're really just talking specifically about Obama having one term.
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 19, 2009 15:08:52 GMT -5
^It's clear that this particular Psalm is another imprecatory prayer. It's one thing to hate the president or even wish his death, as appalling as that may be; it's another thing entirely to employ scripture to justify such an evil desire, which is obviously rooted in racism. I've got to call this one like I see it.
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 19, 2009 15:50:02 GMT -5
I'm not really buying into it...maybe for some ppl. But as a person that knows ppl that are hoping it's his one and only term, I don't think that there reason has to be rooted in racism.....with that it would give the assumption that the ONLY ppl that are using this are caucasians...unless based on the fact that Obama is mixed, it's racism on "both sides"??
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Post by anointedteacher on Nov 19, 2009 17:11:21 GMT -5
At the same time, as we probably ALL know, people use scriptures out of context. So it could be that they're really just talking specifically about Obama having one term. It is witchcraft,... if they know it or not... They know exactly what the scripture mean. Witches and evil ppl uses these type of scripture to cast spells and curses on others.... Verse 9, "Let his children be fatherless; and his wife a widow." So you says they just talking about one term?... This outrages!!! I don't care what you say... it is rooted in racism, like Kraziboi said... It is extremely hateful... these ppl are not saved, but carry the title Christians. Why do you always justify this mess and make excuses for everything these ppl do, even going as far as wishing death on our leader? They are praying amiss and God just might reverse it and they will ended up praying against themselves. |
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Post by kitty on Nov 19, 2009 19:15:19 GMT -5
Hey Guys,
Yes... really it IS witchcraft whether the people who are doing it know it or not... In fact I know of a person who is a Christian who used to practice Wicca who stated that another "witch" gave her a books of Psalms that they used in order to pray AGAINST people...
You know... I never cared for Bush either... But I Never EVER prayed for his death or Against him! I think this is racism too... plain and simple.
Kitty
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 19, 2009 19:19:30 GMT -5
I'm not really buying into it...maybe for some ppl. But as a person that knows ppl that are hoping it's his one and only term, I don't think that there reason has to be rooted in racism.....with that it would give the assumption that the ONLY ppl that are using this are caucasians...unless based on the fact that Obama is mixed, it's racism on "both sides"?? It's one thing to wish Obama to be a one-term president. I don't have a problem with that. But to invoke a scripture that, in its larger context, calls for a person to lose their life ("Let his life be cut short, and let another man replace him as leader" is how the New Century Version reads) is the same type of thing that happened in the past when slavemasters used scripture to justify slavery and Blacks being cursed because of the color of their skin according to the Noah and Canaan story. Nikkol, I know you're a Republican, you didn't vote for Obama, and you don't care for his policies, but there's absolutely no way this type of stuff can be defended, justified, or second-guessed WHATSOEVER. We've already seen so-called pastors saying they are praying for Obama's death, and now we're seeing a grassroots movement embodying the same thing! I mean, what do we have to see before we realize that these crazy, racist people are forreal, seeing his dead body strung up from a tree on the lawn of the White House and rejoicing over "God's will being done"  We all know there were some kooks out there opposing Bush, calling him all sorts of evil names, and even wishing for his death. But never have I seen them appeal to scripture and wrap their hatred in Christianity like I see among the extreme Obama opposition. That's a MAJOR difference here. But what I find amusing and ironic about this, after reading the entire Psalm, is that verses 6-19 describe the false accusations that David's enemies are levying against him. David's enemies want: • an evil person to work against him (v. 6) • his life to be cut short and his family to suffer because of that (vv. 8-10, 12) • his debtors to seize all of his assets (v. 11) • his descendants to die (v. 13) • the Lord to forever hold the sins of his ancestors against them (v. 14, 15) • his ancestors to never be remembered (v. 15) • his reputation to be ruined by false accusations (vv. 16-18) • him to be extensively cursed (v. 19) And after all of that, the prayer of David, the righteous man, is "May the Lord do these things to those who accuse me, to those who speak evil against me" (v. 20). As I heard someone put it, "It is sort of a biblical 'I'm rubber you're glue' kinda thing." These folks had better be really, really careful. A lot of what I see coming from the extreme right-wingers and "teabaggers" fall under those things I listed above. And the crazy thing is that they claim to be Christians. If you were to show these people the actual context of this scripture, that the scripture they want people to pray concerning Obama is the same prayer of evildoers against a righteous man, they would have a FIT!!! |
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 20, 2009 3:24:46 GMT -5
Politics of Christian hate: 'Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8'November 18, 3:37 PM Portland Progressive Examiner Michael Stone The politics of Christian hate is taking an ugly turn with the spread of T-shirts and bumper stickers proclaiming: "Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8". Praying for Obama sounds relatively harmless; however, this is no harmless slogan. The psalm reads, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." Alright, clearly those supporting the slogan are not Obama fans. They are not praying that Obama does a good job, they are praying Obama's days are few. They are praying for Obama's death. It gets even worse. The line that follows reads: "Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow". This goes beyond political dissatisfaction; this is a prayer for the death of our President. Christians praying for the death of our President? Is this what Christianity is about? How low are those on the right willing to stoop? And will those Christians who claim to know better step up and denounce such vile and disgusting sentiment? One thing is certain, the election of President Obama has unleashed a force of rage and anger and hatred that is unprecedented. The fact that so-called Christians would pray for the death of our President, would pray that his wife be made a widow, and his children left without a father, crosses a line that should never be crossed. Such blind hatred, fed by religious ignorance and superstition, threatens our existence as a free people. It is a sad commentary on the state of the union.
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 20, 2009 8:34:16 GMT -5
Should we pray "that", I don't think so. Can someone say, Lord, please let him only have one term in office? Sure. Based on what that scripture says, is there a difference between saying that and saying "Let his days be few; and let another take his office."? Not really.....at least based on the WORDS. And we as Christians know that many times in using scriptures, they're pulled out and taken out of context.
At the same time, I don't understand how/why it has to be linked to racism. Republican or not. Do you (general) believe that because he's "black", that's why they are using the scripture??
Which also brings up another point. If a person uses a scripture and doesn't use it in context or doesn't quote the whole verse/chapter/book, is that wrong? If a person isolates one verse, does it have to mean that the other verses around it are "implied"?
Either way, truth be told, Obama is in office and he'll be there until the Lord says otherwise. Ppl will talk and say all kinds of things...but at the end of the day, what God wants is what will happen.
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Post by giantsdodie on Nov 20, 2009 10:04:49 GMT -5
Christians should learn to pray the WILL of GOD.. period..
Stop manipulating and twisting scripture and for that matter attempting to get GOD to do what WE want Him to do..
and start seeking as asking GOD for HIS WILL and pray that..
and if we dont know WHAT to pray...
Pray in the Spirit...
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 20, 2009 13:00:42 GMT -5
Should we pray "that", I don't think so. Can someone say, Lord, please let him only have one term in office? Sure. Based on what that scripture says, is there a difference between saying that and saying "Let his days be few; and let another take his office."? Not really.....at least based on the WORDS. And we as Christians know that many times in using scriptures, they're pulled out and taken out of context. Yes Nikkol, there is a stark difference. "Let his days be few" is referring to his LIFE, not the duration of his term. He dies, and another person takes his position of leadership. It really is that simple. That fact becomes even more clear when you consider that Hebrew kings only vacated their thrones via death. They weren't voted out. Because this follows a well-documented pattern of racist "Christians" using the Bible to justify and sanction their racism. It's coming from that same school of thought. Wresting a scripture out of its intended context is unacceptable, even though it's done all the time. In a case like this, for an issue that's this serious, it does even more damage. The number one rule for interpreting scripture is that context determines meaning. Context, context, context is always key. Agreed. And if these folks were REAL Christians, they would be praying according to Proverbs 21:1 and 1 Timothy 2:1-3. |
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 20, 2009 14:26:20 GMT -5
1. I don't think that it has to be rooted in racism. Is there anything documented indicating that only caucasian ppl have these bumper stickers/shirts/etc
2. I don't think that most ppl when hearing that would think that that line means to die. Granted, as we've discussed on different times, I doubt that there is a president where someone hasn't wished them dead and some have been assasinated while others had attempts made on their lives. But in reading what ppl have said. noone seems to indicate that they are saying it means death except those that don't agree with it. Is there anything (writing-wise) that could bring more evidence to what the "anti-bumper sticker ppl" are saying is true?
3. Maybe this is just me....but why is this seen as something so "serious"? No, I'm not saying that because I didn't vote for him. As many conversations/boards on any president, I don't know if I've ever taken what ppl say or desire for a president as a "serious" matter. Moreso since I know that it's God that brings up one or takes down another. God's will Will be done if we like it or not. People will always do what ppl want to do.....
4.As prayer being communication with God, is it wrong to say that you'd rather someone else be in office? That can be your honest opinion....
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 20, 2009 16:22:58 GMT -5
1. I don't think that it has to be rooted in racism. Is there anything documented indicating that only caucasian ppl have these bumper stickers/shirts/etc Well of course not. But all the signs are there. You don't have to have scientific studies and such to know if a particular sentiment is rooted in racism to one extent or the other. I'm not saying that the people who have these tee shirts, bumper stickers, etc. are overtly racist, but using scripture to justify things like this fall into the same category historically as other racist things in our nation's history. "Let his days be few" is pretty self-evident, at least to me. That's pretty cut and dried in my eyes. It's serious, for our purposes anyway, because so-called Christians are misusing and mishandling the Word of God in a very offensive and hateful way (this applies to other instances beyond this where people are explicitly praying for the untimely demise of the president). I mean we could say "God's will be done" and just shut this whole BB down, but the purpose of having it is to discuss these issues, exchange ideas, etc. I'm not saying it's wrong to say or believe that, but right now it's in everyone's best interests, especially Christians, to pray that God endows the president with wisdom and guidance to finish out his (first) term. The fact of the matter is that he is now the rightfully-elected president of the U.S., and if someone is praying for him to be removed in the middle of his term, this can mean only one of a few things, and the one thing that comes immediately to mind is his untimely death which causes him to not finish his term. I suppose a close second would be for someone to find the secret Kenyan birth certificate which doesn't exist. |
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Post by anointedteacher on Nov 20, 2009 22:37:17 GMT -5
Praying for a person to be removed from office, it still a form of witchcraft, espeially if it God's Will for him to be there.
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