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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 7, 2006 12:12:01 GMT -5
Where is Heaven?
Where is Hell?
What is Heaven?
What is Hell?
Is Heaven scripture in the way we (Christian's) believe?
Is Hell scriptural in the way we believe?
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Post by Nikkol on Jun 7, 2006 13:54:24 GMT -5
I know that there are different levels... The clouds are in one level of heaven.
I also know that when we die, we aren't going to "heaven", rather we will be in New Jerusalem. (this of course is after the tribulation, etc)
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Post by ybrown on Jun 7, 2006 15:10:33 GMT -5
There are different levels - we are in the first, the clouds and stars are in the second and God resides in the third. I know that our ultimate destination is Heaven with the Father, however I no longer believe that we go straight to Heaven after we die. LANL, good topic. Now if only someone would start a topic on Hell. They'd be some real revelation, rejoicing, possibly rock throwing and shouting and jumping going on.
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 7, 2006 15:21:26 GMT -5
There are different levels - we are in the first, the clouds and stars are in the second and God resides in the third. I know that our ultimate destination is Heaven with the Father, however I no longer believe that we go straight to Heaven after we die. Where do we go if we don't go to Heaven as soon as we die? OK I renamed the title to Heaven and Hell
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Post by Jasmine on Jun 7, 2006 15:24:47 GMT -5
The bible declares that to be absent from the body, is to be present with GOD. In light of this biblical passage, I don't particularly care "where" that is, as long as I am "with" HIM.
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 7, 2006 15:25:11 GMT -5
Is Hell a place consumed of burning fire or a place or torment?
I have my thoughts................
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 7, 2006 16:40:15 GMT -5
The bible declares that to be absent from the body, is to be present with GOD. In light of this biblical passage, I don't particularly care "where" that is, as long as I am "with" HIM. Jas, I agree......... For the sake of discussion and with all the teachings of Heaven and our rewards is in heaven, where streets are paved with Gold, Mansions in the sky, honey and milk flowing abundantly, crowns of rubies (but I want my crown to have emeralds instead of rubies ;D ) and diamonds.... What and where is Heaven, Is heaven really going to be what we expect? BTW: The bible also declares that "brethren I would not have you ignorant concerning those that are Asleep, that in a moment in the twinkling of an eye that the Dead in Christ shall rise.... scripture is in Thessalonians What are the dead in Christ arising from... they are not arising from Heaven?
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Post by Jasmine on Jun 7, 2006 16:50:59 GMT -5
Is Hell a place consumed of burning fire or a place or torment? I have my thoughts................ Whats to say that its not both? *modified* so that it would be clear on what i was referencing with this comment.
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Post by krazeeboi on Jun 7, 2006 21:26:41 GMT -5
Hell is worse than the worse thing we can imagine. The only imagery that comes close is everlasting burning; the reality will be far worse. I don't know what that will be, nor do I have any plans to find out. I believe that upon death, our spirit/soul is automatically "transported" into the immediate presence of God; however, this is not our ultimate destination--a renovated, restored earth is.
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Post by nina on Jun 8, 2006 2:42:56 GMT -5
I think that we should (re)define spirit and soul. Also, it would be helpful to (re)examine exactly what "gehinom" is, since it is mentioned specifically regarding a possible destination for souls after death. About (re)surrection, we might want to try and determine exactly what is (re)united in order for (re)surrection to occur... Also, imho, we should do that remembering that the Bible says that when He died, we died, when He went to what we call hell, we went too with Him, and when He rose, we rose with Him and are now sitting in heavenly places with Him.... My two cents
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Post by krazeeboi on Jun 8, 2006 3:43:03 GMT -5
It would take Nina to open a whole 'notha can 'o worms here....
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Post by nina on Jun 8, 2006 5:25:14 GMT -5
Thanks KB, I needed that....
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Post by giantsdodie on Jun 8, 2006 8:09:58 GMT -5
Is Hell a place consumed of burning fire or a place or torment? I have my thoughts................ Yes In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell: 22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME." In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ." Rev. 14:9-11, "And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."” And this is why Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30"And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell," (Matt. 5:29-30).
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Post by ybrown on Jun 8, 2006 10:24:29 GMT -5
The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is exactly that - a parable and it has nothing to do with what happens in heaven and hell. The teaching that we've been telling regarding hell is false, and again it goes back to some of the early church fathers, as well as translators of the original texts.
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Post by Jasmine on Jun 8, 2006 10:47:22 GMT -5
I think that we should (re)define spirit and soul. Also, it would be helpful to (re)examine exactly what "gehinom" is, since it is mentioned specifically regarding a possible destination for souls after death. About (re)surrection, we might want to try and determine exactly what is (re)united in order for (re)surrection to occur... Also, imho, we should do that remembering that the Bible says that when He died, we died, when He went to what we call hell, we went too with Him, and when He rose, we rose with Him and are now sitting in heavenly places with Him.... My two cents Gehinom is usually used metaphorically as an appellation for the place of torment reserved for wicked souls after death. Ressurrection: The Soul/Spirit and Body is reunited. Which shall become our "Glorified Bodies".
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