Can salvation be lost?Are we trying to make it in?

[krazeeboi]

hezsweetiknow said:

krazeeboi said:

What is our assurance of salvation? That's a pertinent question here.

that if we confess our sins, he is faithful to forgive us. I John 1:9

Quote the passages that come prior to and after this scripture as well. Context is important.

[krazeeboi]

g3 said:

The doctrine of "Unconditional Security" paved the way to the doctrine of "Inclusion". Both doctrine discredit the "God of Justice".

I totally disagree here. If anything, the doctrine which includes the tenet of unconditional security, which is Calvinism, is the very antithesis of universalism. Calvinism states that God has foreordained some to eternal life, while allowing the rest to remain lost in their sins. From there, those that God chose from the foundation of the world can never be lost to Christ; however, that number is a limited number. The rest will be consigned to the lake of fire as their eternal portion. Universalism proclaims that all will indeed be saved, and thus there is no need for eternal punishment in this view.

If anything, I see the justice of God displayed more accurately in the Calvinist view. God owes it to no one to offer him/her salvation. He offers it of His own volition on His own terms. If He chooses to save even one undeserving sinner, He is infinitely merciful. However, he has chosen to also display His justice in inflicting eternal wrath on vessels of dishonor. To say that God owes everyone a chance is perverting justice, because He does NOT owe everyone a chance.

[anointedteacher]

Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13, "For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved"
Acts 10:43, "... Whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."
Romans 9:33 "...whoeverbelieves on Him will not be put to shame"
I John 4:15, "Whoever confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God abidesin him, and God in him."
I John 5:1, "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...."

Who is whoever? Is there a limit to whoever?.... whoever mean ALL.... The Word did not say whoever God have chosen. It is an open invitation to ALL to believes.

KB, Is whoever is limited to certain people? Please explain how.

AT

[krazeeboi]

AT, you have jumped the gun here. I'm not speaking of action, only obligation. I might come in to work on Monday and tell my co-workers, "I'm giving you all $100." That should not be mistaken to mean that I am obligated to give them $100 or that I owe them $100. I believe that this is an oft-overlooked, yet critical, distinction between what God has done and what God should do.

[Nikkol]

krazeeboi said:

AT, you have jumped the gun here. I'm not speaking of action, only obligation. I might come in to work on Monday and tell my co-workers, "I'm giving you all $100." That should not be mistaken to mean that I am obligated to give them $100 or that I owe them $100. I believe that this is an oft-overlooked, yet critical, distinction between what God has done and what God should do.

I liked that example........

[anointedteacher]

Whoever is an open invitation for all....

My example: KB is you are getting marry.... and gave an open invitation to the whole congregation, members and visitors to come to your wedding. There were a total of 350 ppl plus 100 families and friends invited. You prepared 450 + seating and prepared to pay for 450 + $50\plate for reception. You wanted to make sure everybody have an opportunity to be present at you wedding. You made several announcement weekly up to the date of your wedding, you even planned provide transportation to and from the wedding and the reception. The only thing you requested for everyone that come to be dressed in white robes, which will also be provided. You can not entered the webbing without wearing the white robe. Everybody were invited, but only 150 including family and friends came to the webbing.

I believe God giving everybody an opportunity for salvation.... Jesus die for all, not a few
favorite ppl.

John 3:15-17, "15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

I Timothy 2:4, "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

II Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffing to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Revelation 22:17, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is thirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

AT

AT

[Jasmine]

I think you are still missing it ATT.

God doesn't OWE us anything. God is not OBLIGATED to do anything for us. I believe this is what KB is saying (by the way, is very capable to speak for himself).

What you are saying is also true. Jesus died for all men sins, and anyone that calls upon his name shall be saved. The invitation is extended, however many don't show up for the extravaganza.

"For many are called, but few are chosen".

That says something!

[Nikkol]

I think that that hits on some questions that people have. If one says that Jesus died for ALL sins, how can one go to hell?

[MsKayLander]

electladynb said:

I think that that hits on some questions that people have. If one says that Jesus died for ALL sins, how can one go to hell?

Because of unrepentance....

[krazeeboi]

Thanks Jasmine.

I really think we have a warped view of atonement. Atonement actually accomplishes something; it isn't a potentiality, it's an actuality. Jesus' death is 100% effectual, in that it accomplishes the salvation of everyone it was intended to accomplish salvation for. Jesus' sacrifice is not a failure in any way.

[Jasmine]

electladynb said:

I think that that hits on some questions that people have. If one says that Jesus died for all sins, how can one go to hell?

I would believe that any one who presumes that they are in the clear from hell, without having a relationship with Jesus is insane. If you have not accepted Him as your Lord, then there is no forgiveness of your sins.

You are still a ship without a sail. In order to reap the benefits of having the stains of sin removed, you have to come into fellowship with Jesus.

Jesus didn't die on the cross and rise with all power, for men to assume that they could continue to go on living life in grave clothes.

[And Such Were Some Of You]

I sense the "C" word coming again.......(sigh)

[G3]

Krazee, I don't wear Calvin Kline.

But I'm curious. This wisdom you speak of, is it of Divine orgin or is it of man. Is this a form of "logical reasoning"? Substantiate the "limited number" theory. If its Divine substantiate your conviction, in contexts, with biblical scirptures. If its man's....well, you know.

How is the Father Just? Is He just because of His works? Or is He Just because of His nature? How do you define Justice in view of the Godhead? How can the Godhead be partial or selective to whom is to be save or lost in light of the Word that says " He would all men to be saved and to repent. Is there a contradiction in His will for all men to be saved and repent and His partiality to whom is lost and who is not? Is His partiality greater than His will? Isn't His will and Word in harmony? And isn't His Word that gives value to His name? Isn't He the Father of Rightiousness? Doesn't partiality display a respect of person? Didn't the Word say that He is without respect of person. And I say that He is a Respector of Princple. And in contrary to the practical Law without remorse and repentance from man, he will be lost. This was predetermine by the Godhead from the foundation of the world.

As mentioned before, the subtle spirit of Calvinism has paved a road that leads to the doctrine of inclusion. Whether it's just one person chosen. This person will represent that "I am secured and I can't be lost". That leaven will contaminate the whole. Their both from the same spirit.

[Jasmine]

I know what calvinism,universalism, and armanenism says regarding this matter.

but I am reminded of a statement that Endure4him made. Whatever happened to just plain on believing that God can save Anybody.

I believe that God can save anybody. I believe the invitation has been made. "come unto me all ye that are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. I also believe that even with the invitation being extended, everyone will not accept Jesus. It is not because they have not been witnessed to, it is not because they've seen to much in church, it is not because of any of the reasons that we hear about individuals knowing of Jesus, his marvelous work, but not having any desire to accept him.

Why?

[anointedteacher]

jasmine said:

I think you are still missing it ATT.

God doesn't OWE us anything. God is not OBLIGATED to do anything for us. I believe this is what KB is saying (by the way, is very capable to speak for himself).

What you are saying is also true. Jesus died for all men sins, and anyone that calls upon his name shall be saved. The invitation is extended, however many don't show up for the extravaganza.

"For many are called, but few are chosen".

That says something!

NO I"M NOT MISSING IT! Where in my post I said God owe us something or is obligated to do anything for us. You need to go back and re-read the post..... Because you are missing it.

The point i am making is that God gave and still giving an open invitation to ALL, not some that is call chosen. Those who are chosen are those who accepted the invitation to receive salvation. The scriptures shows that it is His Will that ALL be saved.

AT