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Post by keita on Oct 1, 2007 15:38:56 GMT -5
On "another thread... I copy and paste this from Christian Sexuality.... Tell me what you think and how it relate to Bishop Weeks teaching.
(Video)
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14. Anavah | September 29, 2007 at 1:34 am
Patricia , Elder Jimmy, and Overcomer,
You all seem to hold very different interprative veiws of Hebrews 13: 4 that range from one extreme Patricia, to the other Overcomer and in between Elder Jimmy. Let’s look at this scripture and investigate it:
NKJV
“4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.”
NLT
“4 Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery.”
AMP
“4Let marriage be held in honor (esteemed worthy, precious, of great price, and especially dear) in all things. And thus let the marriage bed be undefiled (kept undishonored); for God will judge and punish the unchaste [all guilty of sexual vice] and adulterous.”
The Amplified Bible gives us the best view and understanding of this scripture. It does not say that marriage is (automatically) honorable, but instead admonishes that it should be held in honor. This scripture in the Amplified also makes it clear that the marriage bed is not (automatically) undefiled but that instead it should be kept undefiled. Lastly, the scripture makes it very clear that sexual vice can not (I add not because I think she made a mistake and left it out) be committed within the confines of marraige.
Now many want to interpret that term “sexual vice” as adultery, (sex with one other than one’s own spouse). However, in the king james version, the word used for sexual vice is “fornicators”. That word literally means in the Greek, illicit or unlawful sexual intercourse — that includes all acts of sexual immorality, not just adultery.
It seems that it would be necessary then to establish what “legal sexual intercourse” is then. Elder Jimmy, you wanted to know what the word “undefiled” means in the Greek. Here it is:
“not defiled, unsoiled
free from that by which the nature of a thing is deformed and debased, or its force and vigour impaired ”
POWERFUL! That seems to shed and entirely new light on this scripture to me. Especially when you use the above definition in place of the word undefiled in the AMP Version of Heb 13:4.
“4Let marriage be held in honor (esteemed worthy, precious, of great price, and especially dear) in all things. And thus let the marriage bed be undefiled [kept free from that by which the nature of it is deformed and debased, or its force and vigour impaired ]; for God will judge and punish the unchaste [all guilty of sexual vice] and adulterous.”
When we study to show ourselves approved, it can be so eye-opening. So what does all of the above mean then?
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Do you think we have been taking Hebrew 13:4 out of context? Do it mean that a married couple should keep the bed undefiled or anything go, like the Weeks.
AT |
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Post by Beulah5 on Oct 1, 2007 16:13:17 GMT -5
The problem can be that 'undefiled' means a whole lotta different things to different folk  The whole undefiled word has now become personal to people so say depending on someone's age their idea of undefiled may be different to someone younger.  Also someone's personal experience growing up about what is 'clean' and unclean . Even worse are those who assume they have 'been there' done that and so are in the best positions to teach everyone how to have sex  Oh and even worse the ones who did it all in their youth and suddenly their drive has waned in their older age and they now want to impose on others . The Bible is clear that a 3rd party is not allowed in the bed-scripture is clear about that however re sexuality the tragicity is the arrogance that so many teachers have which is they seem to assume or presume what even Paul didnt. Like the women issue Paul knew for a fact that if people were truly saved and in intimacy with the Holy Spirit that automatically they will submit one to the other, that they will not offend God and that they will live peacably enjoying the saviour to the max and each other in fellowship. That is simply why the scripture does not go into detail on many issues because Paul knew that when Christ has His proper place everything slides into order-that may be new for some of u folk who feel that if u dont have a say on everything that goes on in the church and dictate to everyone, and bring out a 10 part series on evrything that the church of Jesus Christ will not survive  I thank God for the freedom the church has come into but i am growing increasingly wary as to the basis of some of these 'romance prophets' who usually realise the monetary worth of having such 'conferences'. The basis is wrong and so it becomes a 'this is the way i did it or God did it for me so it applies to y'all...... In addition to this is the conditioning that has come from all these so called christian 'psychological studies on what is what-women are supposed to be this and men are supposed to be dat etc etc Not all women are slow burners and not all men are microwaves those are just general assumptions-the best thing is to get to know urself in Christ and who u are as a person and let Him unlearn u of all of that nonsense that u pick up from those aunties etc then u can get to know ur spouse in intimacy and in the freedom for which Christ has set u free-that is one of the beauties of marriage-the freedom to explore and to be free. The worst tool the enemy is using to hinder us from fulfilling our potential in Christ in life and in the bedroom is : shame. And the church throughout the centuries has been guilty of perpetuating that.  I personally believe that this is because there is a great blessing and energy released in a woman to walk in a stratosphere of achievement that is out of this world through a very satisfying sexual relationship with her husband. The issue of shame and so called dos and donts that have nothing to do with God have managed to rob a lot of women of what God intended for them and in turn they have robbed their husbands  . I believe that sex was designed by God and constitutes a huge part if not nearly all of her revelling in her 'femininity' (for those who are married). I also believe that is why Adam was put here first-so he could till the land and all that and woman could just come and climb on top of him God is into creativity-just read the bible-no one writes poetry like Him and no one gives the sweet talk like God-shame has no place in all our doings and especially in the marriage bed which can represent the height of intimacy for us humans. The constraint is not to offend one another simply put that is generally what the bible had to say to this. Eden was the hottest sex spot-man and woman were naked before the universe and not ashamed and going for it That is exactly what our sex lives are supposed to be-as believers we are supposed to be the best lovers and enjoy sexuality so much- it is good for the health, ur hair, ur skin and i mean who needs prozac when God has designed sex?  So for all u prudes out there who feel u r doing God a favour in being prudish -there is nothing worse than a married believer who is not having good sex-they so uptight and so badly dressed and sour-i can spot them a mile away cause they tend to constitute the 'mean' christians. Shame on you! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Beulah5 on Oct 1, 2007 16:49:47 GMT -5
Now sis keita can u pls change the title to christian intimacy or something since my work internet will automatically prevent me from getting on here tomorrow when i go in  Thanks |
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Post by Beulah5 on Oct 1, 2007 17:05:09 GMT -5
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Post by Jasmine on Oct 1, 2007 17:44:22 GMT -5
WOW that good bishop was OFF!!
When he mentioned that he curses during sexual relations and God knew that we (us married folks) would defile the bed do to our fleshly acts, I am like ERR what!
Hmm I should have been in the audience. I would have had to speak to him about blessings and cursings. I would have to show him that what comes forth out the mouth , flows from the heart, and thats what can Defile a man.
Now, AT, i know u said u don't want a freak in the bed, but hmm its not really a bad thing.
I just say AS LONG AS you set boundaries. U will be alright.
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Post by Beck on Oct 1, 2007 17:49:37 GMT -5
Whats scary is all the amens he gets ...
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Post by Jasmine on Oct 1, 2007 18:07:08 GMT -5
definitely. But you know some folks just amen to be amenin...
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Post by anointedteacher on Oct 1, 2007 18:07:29 GMT -5
WOW that good bishop was OFF!! When he mentioned that he curses during sexual relations and God knew that we (us married folks) would defile the bed do to our fleshly acts, I am like ERR what! Hmm I should have been in the audience. I would have had to speak to him about blessings and cursings. I would have to show him that what comes forth out the mouth , flows from the heart, and thats what can Defile a man. Now, AT, i know u said u don't want a freak in the bed, but hmm its not really a bad thing. I just say AS LONG AS you set boundaries. U will be alright. I don't want my husband to bring his dirty worldly unclean happens and issues that should have left behind when he got saved into the bedroom... NO NO NO I refuse to be somebody wh_r_ or something he pick off the street. It is all Lust.... You will find yourself having sex, but not making Love. It open the door for the incubus and succubus spirits to enter into the couple sexual relationship. AT |
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Post by abundanceofpraise on Oct 1, 2007 18:24:22 GMT -5
hummmmmmm Very interesting anointedteacher
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Post by keita on Oct 1, 2007 19:31:14 GMT -5
Now sis keita can u pls change the title to christian intimacy or something since my work internet will automatically prevent me from getting on here tomorrow when i go in Thanks Done, sista bee! And I had quite a good time thinking of possible alternative titles, lol! (Oh yeah, Sis AT said to tell you we're not to be coming in here when we're supposed to be working and to repent for that immediately. So there. lol!) |
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Post by Jasmine on Oct 1, 2007 19:38:11 GMT -5
WOW that good bishop was OFF!! When he mentioned that he curses during sexual relations and God knew that we (us married folks) would defile the bed do to our fleshly acts, I am like ERR what! Hmm I should have been in the audience. I would have had to speak to him about blessings and cursings. I would have to show him that what comes forth out the mouth , flows from the heart, and thats what can Defile a man. Now, AT, i know u said u don't want a freak in the bed, but hmm its not really a bad thing. I just say AS LONG AS you set boundaries. U will be alright. I don't want my husband to bring his dirty worldly unclean happens and issues that should have left behind when he got saved into the bedroom... NO NO NO I refuse to be somebody wh_r_ or something he pick off the street. It is all Lust.... You will find yourself having sex, but not making Love. It open the door for the incubus and succubus spirits to enter into the couple sexual relationship. AT Well then we need to describe whats dirty and unclean for married folks, because again... the marriage bed is undefiled. We are not talking about brings folks in.-thats adultery We aint even talking about "toys" ..some folks do that but I don't see the need. Now, A freak to me would be someone with a High sex drive? He don't have to want to flip, rub it up, and smack it (but... laughs) Are you referring to oral sex? Again, I'm trying to see which angle you are heading to so I can at least try to meet you half way |
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Post by abundanceofpraise on Oct 1, 2007 19:38:38 GMT -5
Now sis keita can u pls change the title to christian intimacy or something since my work internet will automatically prevent me from getting on here tomorrow when i go in Thanks Done, sista bee! And I had quite a good time thinking of possible alternative titles, lol! (Oh yeah, Sis AT said to tell you we're not to be coming in here when we're supposed to be working and to repent for that immediately. So there. lol!)[/qu Guess I need to repent as well cuz I been on here sometimes when I at work shhhhhhhhhhhhhh dont tell nobody I might get wrote up!!! Thanks Jessica |
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Post by anointedteacher on Oct 1, 2007 21:05:10 GMT -5
I don't want my husband to bring his dirty worldly unclean happens and issues that should have left behind when he got saved into the bedroom... NO NO NO I refuse to be somebody wh_r_ or something he pick off the street. It is all Lust.... You will find yourself having sex, but not making Love. It open the door for the incubus and succubus spirits to enter into the couple sexual relationship. AT Well then we need to describe whats dirty and unclean for married folks, because again... the marriage bed is undefiled. We are not talking about brings folks in.-thats adultery We aint even talking about "toys" ..some folks do that but I don't see the need. Now, A freak to me would be someone with a High sex drive? He don't have to want to flip, rub it up, and smack it (but... laughs) Are you referring to oral sex? Again, I'm trying to see which angle you are heading to so I can at least try to meet you half way Is the bed automatically undefiled or the couple suppose to keep it undefiled. anything goes or do we do what God designed our body to do as far as have sex and making love. Should a man do to his wife what he did in the world when he picked a woman off the street and let his imagination go wild? pornography, dirty talk, sex toys, oral sex, filming sex acts etc.... I hread the couple used to be a member of my church, the man high sex drive put his newly wed wife in the hospital and she was far from being a virgin when they got married. |
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Post by abundanceofpraise on Oct 1, 2007 21:09:45 GMT -5
wowwwwwww anointedteacher that is awlful............I think that people go way to far and think that anything goes, God does have limits even in the marriage bed!!! but That Just me I never been Married so I wouldn't know.........
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Post by anointedteacher on Oct 1, 2007 21:24:29 GMT -5
That couple got divorce quick.... my pastor told them a head of time they are marrying for the wrong reason and it wasn't going work.... They were separated within one year. I don't know what happen.
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I personally believe that this is because there is a great blessing and energy released in a woman to walk in a stratosphere of achievement that is out of this world through a very satisfying sexual relationship with her husband.
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Thanks
