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Post by J13578 on Oct 13, 2005 4:12:22 GMT -5
Also, if we consider these events as being all allowed by God, then, should not our next question be "Why?"
What is God's intent in allowing this?
Could it be to stir up in us some kind of "jealousy"? To trigger some questions about ourselves, to realign ourselves with Him, and why He allows us to linger here for any length of time?
Isn't it true that when witnessing those events, it's impossible not to notice the impact that they have, yet, every time, the reaction is the same? It is easy to sit back, analyse and dissect. It is the only truth to say that without Jesus, nothing lasting can be accomplished, more, better, greater. And yet....
We have the answer, we have the power, sometimes it seems that the Church has yet to find where the switch to turn on the power is.
If we are His light, should not He, through us, outshine everything and everybody else?
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Post by livinganewlife on Oct 13, 2005 9:02:01 GMT -5
Also, if we consider these events as being all allowed by God, then, should not our next question be "Why?" What is God's intent in allowing this? Could it be to stir up in us some kind of "jealousy"? To trigger some questions about ourselves, to realign ourselves with Him, and why He allows us to linger here for any length of time? Isn't it true that when witnessing those events, it's impossible not to notice the impact that they have, yet, every time, the reaction is the same? It is easy to sit back, analyse and dissect. It is the only truth to say that without Jesus, nothing lasting can be accomplished, more, better, greater. And yet.... We have the answer, we have the power, sometimes it seems that the Church has yet to find where the switch to turn on the power is. If we are His light, should not He, through us, outshine everything and everybody else? Lilah, great point esp that last sentence. If we Christains are to outshine everyone than WHY NOT? We have the power and yet it takes a minister Farrakhan to gather Christians and Muslims (AA) to unify the men in our community. One point that is overlooked is that Muslims do believe in God (Allah) they believe in Jesus (they do not believe that Jesus was the Savior of this world) Muslims believe that Jesus was a Prophet sent by God equal to Mohamed. So many of us "Christians" live in Thomas Moore Utopia that we fail to realize that there are people in this world who are succeeding and doing GREAT things who do not proclaim Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I mean without the Jews we wouldn't have half of the movies or TV shows we enjoy. Is it wrong to go and see a movie that is involve Christian lifestyle but is produced by Steven Spielberg?  (How many of you all didn't see the Color Purple?) No one says it is wrong to for Christan churches to apply for grants from the Annenberg Foundation to help inner city youths? Come on People take off your Rose color glasses... |
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Post by Beulah5 on Oct 13, 2005 9:15:29 GMT -5
Lol @ livinganewlife. A lot of that mentality is what i was trying to address in 'The Body is more than a shell' post. Because believe or not many believers dont actually think that God wants us to have anything to do in the world-we are just here passing through so why bother  ROFL ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Nikkol on Oct 13, 2005 13:34:28 GMT -5
God can use anyone, saved or not. (remember I also believe that one can be anointed to do something and not saved). However there is a difference in God giving one favor with those who are unsaved vs. us getting involved with something that is headed up by someone that is unsaved.
Also, we know that God has allowed many things to occur throughout scripture. We can see this based on our free will. We also know that in Acts 17 there were things that in times of old, he "winked at".
What I meant by lasting is that we know that our life here on earth vs eternity is very very short-- less than a drop in the bucket.
One of the reasons why Christ came was that we (general) were in darkenss and he came as the light. Yet not everyone received that light and preferred to stay in darkness. I don't think that we should equate a lack of people in Christianity with a lack of people shining their light. Not everyone is going to like the light nor receive it. This is why we can thank God for salvation because if it wasn't for Him, as much as the light was shown, we could still be in darkness. This would also include looking at some of the countries overseas where they aren't even allowed to practice Christianity and are being persecuted for his name. I don't think that we would say that they aren't letting their light shine. True Christianity is not popular. Scripturally, with many who were involved in true Christianity, persecution (of some sort) followed.
Also, a person not believing that Jesus is God is very fundamental in Christian belief. There's actually an article which goes into detail about how allah is not the true and living God but rather one of the many gods that they just chose to pick. And to put Jesus on the same level as a person born in sin and shappened in iniquity....... But if I can find that article, I'll post it. It's very interesting.
Two questions:
"Can someone have true success without God?"
"Is there true unity without Christ?"
Side note: I'm not sure exactly how churches recieving grants can be put in the same category as muslims and christians coming "together". Could you elaborate?
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Post by livinganewlife on Oct 13, 2005 14:40:36 GMT -5
Two questions: "Can someone have true success without God?" "Is there true unity without Christ?" Side note: I'm not sure exactly how churches recieving grants can be put in the same category as muslims and christians coming "together". Could you elaborate?
Is there TRUE unity without Christ? I will pose this question is there TRUE unity with those who confess Christ? I believe TRUE unity does not exist, however we all have a common thread with people that connect us some way. My connection to you is that we are both Blood bought believers.
My connection with Farrakhan is the uplifting of our people. My connection with Ghandi was non violence and peace. My connection with Bill Clinton is that he played the Saxophone well ;D and the list goes on and on.
Now about the grants: There seems to be no problem with Churches getting money from these same non Christian entities. I am certain that Christian churches from around this country receive monies from the Jewish, Muslim, and Lebanese Foundations ALLLLLLLL the time.
Very seldom do you hear of multi million dollar Christian Foundations giving money. Even United Way which members consist of every religious belief possible.
With that being said we can receive money to build our life centers from Jewish, Muslims and Lebanese people. At the same time we can't go and spend 4 hours to listen to a Black man regardless of belief who has organize a process that tries to unite our people or at least give them the motivation to want to do better.
Please..............give me a break
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Post by livinganewlife on Oct 13, 2005 14:54:56 GMT -5
God can use anyone, saved or not. (remember I also believe that one can be anointed to do something and not saved). However there is a difference in God giving one favor with those who are unsaved vs. us getting involved with something that is headed up by someone that is unsaved. Nikkol, this statement puts God in a Box. God is not limited to our intimidations. Just because we "humanly" do not think it is possible to get involved with something that's headed up by someone who is not saved is so not like God. Everyday, I would get up and go to work at a company that was headed up by Mormons (the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) I don't know what those folks believe but I do know that there Bible was not my Bible. Could God not get glory out of me working there? Could I still not use the funds that I received on that job to help establish His Kingdom...... Take off the rose colored glasses, we do not live in an all Christian society. Some of us attend colleges and universities where the Deans and Administrator were Buddhist, Atheist, Witches and some more stuff and yet we survived and God is getting the glory out of His children lives. Everything I get involved with for the most part is headed up by people who are not saved. A. Going to work (who owns your company?) B Going to the Grocery store? C. AND the ALLLLLL time killer is I got to but GAS / PETROLEUM from Muslims  Should I not drive because the oil is produced in a Muslim nation?  Love ya Sis......  |
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Post by Jasmine on Oct 13, 2005 22:21:42 GMT -5
Are we striving for "worldy" success?. . Really it's good to be "great" in the site of men, but when it gets right down to it. God's eyes are not man's..and while we can be great down here...we fail miserably with Him. However I was trying not to respond, because i dont want to get into what has already been posted but i will say this...not once what any of you have commented about, was something that i inquired about. But i will return later to post to some of the things i have read..my my my. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Oct 13, 2005 22:38:15 GMT -5
The Head Negro in Charge Syndrome: The Dead End of Black Politics by Norman Kelley Book DescriptionAl Sharpton's entrance into the 2004 Democratic presidential race is evidence of a decaying black political culture where ego trumps politics. It is the last gasp of a tradition that has been transformed over a generation from bold, effective and results-oriented politics to rhetoric and symbolism, argues crime writer and social commentator Norman Kelley. As Kelley shows, what Sharpton covets is the sobriquet-The Head Negro in Charge (HNIC), a symbolic political mobilization that replaces effective politics and organizing. "The HNIC syndrome has seen the rise of symbolic leaders-Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan, Sharpton and now Russell Simmons-who may be charismatic," Kelley writes, "but are politically unaccountable to the very people they claim to represent, namely African Americans. The transformation has been underway since the 1970s, but most African Americans have yet to confront it." HNIC syndrome is both a symptom and response to the failings of black political and cultural orthodoxy, of a sclerotic black elite represented by the NAACP and the Black Congressional Caucus, who have embedded themselves into the machinery of the Democratic Party and the conservative movement.
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Post by lanl ns on Oct 14, 2005 8:49:11 GMT -5
Jas, I responded to your questions as best as I could, however the question you asked CAN NOT be resolved in a March, within a Movement or through Political Leaders. The greater good of AA can only be obtained when each INDIVIDUAL person decides to take responsibility and accountability for his / her actions. You are asking questions that can only be resolved through Jesus by exemplifying His lifestyle of integrity and morality. One can not legislate Salvation, Morality nor Integrity The March was just a "tiny" step in the right direction. But what I haven't seen in these 10 years is anyone in the Christian arena step up and take the charge? There is no fight for the black man... And to respond to the remark you made about us (Christians) trying to obtain worldly success, if you would re read my post I clearly stated that the WORLD seeks worldly success because that is ALL they have to look forward to. But WE whom are set apart have ETERNAL life ad understand that only what WE do for CHRIST will last. |
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Post by Jasmine on Oct 14, 2005 13:04:14 GMT -5
Please delete the previous post..I've added
exactly my point.
absolutely true
My questioning had a specific purpose..only true restoration comes through Christ...ALONE, if we are looking to be restored at a march, we must first come to know the restorer.
Again, no disputes
I disagree with that for 2 reasons..Each church individually has taken their own way to reach out to the communities in their states. Not all Pastor's are Hirelings. There are things that churches do for African american men, that we may never even know about. Now granted there should be some type of event to the extent that Christian leaders are representing in unity in massive numbers to witness, educate, councel, help, and discuss political matters regarding African Americans.
The comment that I was referring to was this one:
So many of us "Christians" live in Thomas Moore Utopia that we fail to realize that there are people in this world who are succeeding and doing GREAT things who do not proclaim Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
I agree, what we do for Christ will last. and Everything else outside of him...fails.
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Grace
Full Member
Posts: 186
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Post by Grace on Oct 14, 2005 14:59:21 GMT -5
I agree with Jas, what has the "million man march" accomplished for the african american collectively?
I have yet to see any real impact. Although it was a good intent, not much has been accomplished.
As far as atonement is concerned, Jesus is the atonement and that is enough.
Yes God can use anybody and yes he does. I don't think we disagree with that. But in reality why am i going to go and listen to a man who knows of Jesus but yet doesn't accept him as Lord and Savior. Seems pointless to me at this point.
So outside of rallying together as a people what else is he saying. We can rally all we want but with out Jesus at the head of that rally, the labor is in vain.
Besides we are in the middle of 40 days of purpose and are having small goup bible studies in our communities. So i opt for making a impact on my community.
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Post by Nikkol on Oct 15, 2005 7:18:05 GMT -5
Pr 13:22 -
A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.
Also, I think that if one's concern should be their community, than we should unite regardless of color because we ALL need Jesus.
It has nothing to do with putting God in a box or it not being possible to be involved with someone headed up by a nonbeliever/heathen.
Now even if one were to say that it's "good" to unite with Muslims for the "black cause", how does that look for those that are without? What testimony does that give to those that are without?
Am 3:3 -
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Eph 6:5-8
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: 8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
That reminds me how even the apostles started at home and than spread abroad. Sometimes we pull ourselves so thin. The community where the ministry is should be our (general) number one priority. Whether that is a 5 block radius or a 5 mile radius. This way we can still go house to house breaking bread together
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Post by Anointed Teacher on Oct 15, 2005 14:58:21 GMT -5
Farrakhan is a false teacher and prophet  . He do not preach or teach the same Jesus we serve. He do not believe Jesus is God..... it is against his muslim belief . So why would a born again believer of Jesus Christ want to follow or even hear this man speak . It is more than worldly event, it is a religious gathering for the black muslims in the USA, Christian do not belong there . II Cor. 11:4 and Gal 1:6-8 It is strange some of the same people will talk down on conferences held by true men and women of God and encourage a muslim event as if it is something good for Christian to go to . It only show where some people heart is at . AT |
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Post by keita on Oct 15, 2005 18:25:29 GMT -5
Sis "AT", You were doing so well expressing your opinion...until you typed that last sentence! I'm reminded of this from another thread: and I remain hopeful that you will indeed begin to take your own wise advice!  |
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Post by Anointed Teacher on Oct 15, 2005 23:47:28 GMT -5
II Cor. 11:4 and Gal 1:6-8 It is strange some of the same people will talk down on conferences held by true men and women of God and encourage a muslim event as if it is something good for Christian to go to . It only show where some people heart is at . AT The Truth! is The Truth!...... When it come to well known ministers, people are quick to assassinate their character in the Name of the Lord, as if it pleases God. A false teacher of an occult have an event, the same tongue that cursed the man of God for offering help and job opportunity, encouraging Christian to participant in that occult event. YES, it is strange, and make me wonder about the spirit that operates in some folks (not everybody). AT |
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(How many of you all didn't see the Color Purple?) 
Should I not drive because the oil is produced in a Muslim nation? 
. He do not preach or teach the same Jesus we serve. He do not believe Jesus is God..... it is against his muslim belief 