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Post by stillfocused on Oct 16, 2005 0:24:50 GMT -5
You know sometimes; some things just get old. We all understand that the Nation of Isalm teaches that they believe that Christ is a part of the Trinity. Yet, one thing I do know is that they support our men when they come out of jail, they clothe they, they feed them, and yes, they put them to work and it doesn't cost them anything except their commitment. As for our well known Pastors, Preachers, Bishops, and etc when is the last time you have heard of any them having a conference that didn't cost their attendees anything and saw them giving the attendees something without a price being attached ? And since the Million Man March how many of our leaders have to travel to the cities across this country and call for believers to come to gather for 2 days of prayer. Sadly, we have not seen it. We all must admit that the people of God are tired of people telling them..."Turn to your neighbor and say, next year this time....., turn around 7 times and on the 7th time come out praising the Lord..., or " tell your neighbor that you're going to receive quadruple for for you trouble.....". And then walk out of the church, the conferences, and etc. just as depressed and broke as they were before when they got there. As for that spirit that operates in some folk...it's the spirit of pride !! It operates in us, our Pastors, our big time Pastors, and many others...only thing is that others recognize before we even get a hint it's there. This event has only proven that people want more than what they have been receiving..which for some is truth, encouragement, and a leader who is not afraid to speak what's on his mind. Whose coming with no agendas, no motives, and no money. I believe that we would rise up and come out from the 4 walls of our church buildings, building funds, and do things that will touch the hearts and souls of men..people wouldn't have a need to follow the voice of any other because they would know the voice of the true shepherd Jesus Christ.
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Post by GiantsDODie ns on Oct 16, 2005 7:00:33 GMT -5
Farrakhan is a false teacher and prophet  . He do not preach or teach the same Jesus we serve. He do not believe Jesus is God..... it is against his muslim belief . So why would a born again believer of Jesus Christ want to follow or even hear this man speak  . It is more than worldly event, it is a religious gathering for the black muslims in the USA, Christian do not belong there . II Cor. 11:4 and Gal 1:6-8 It is strange some of the same people will talk down on conferences held by true men and women of God and encourage a muslim event as if it is something good for Christian to go to  . It only show where some people heart is at . AT I have actually heard him say with my OWN ears and I quote. " You dont need no Jesus I'm your messiah " If that aint the spirit of Anti-Christ, I dont know what is" |
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Post by J13578 on Oct 16, 2005 7:47:28 GMT -5
From the very first page of this thread, Jasmine asked:
"I have a Question and maybe you all can help answer it?
What is exactly accomplished by marching to washington dc? Beside the fact of exercise, and maybe some "fellowship"..but what is accomplished through the marches? "
In absolute, the answer could be "nothing"...
However, it does give some major clues about where people stand today, you don't get this kind of attendance just because.
Why would people of all faiths, all lifestyles, go out of their way to attend? We need to give those who attended at least some credit and acknowledge that they certainly knew who was organising, yet they went.
I think that the message, from the people who attended, whatever religious background they have, was to everybody else at large "been there, heard that, done that" and that Mr Farrakhan, as who and what he is, addressed their questions and their needs at this moment in time.
So, as what Giant said is certainly true, if we can take our eyes, for a minute, off of Mr Farrakan himself, not to overlook it, but to understand better, the fact is that he did touch a raw nerve in the life of the people and they answered.
It should not cause more strife among ourselves, it is an eye opener. We might discard it because it does not seem to have accomplished a lot from the outside. But it is an important sign, and a preview of how and why the Antichrist will, indeed, be able to deceive the entire world.
We might not act on events like these, not even react to them in the appropriate way, but for the organisers they follow up on their work. It is not what makes the front page that matters, it's the work behind it... It lead to this event and there will be more. It is that work which, after ten years since the first one, generated the results of today. There are more than Mr Farrakhan working on their own agenda, like the leaders of the New World Order.
We are told to watch and pray. When God allows it to be put right under our nose, we cannot look the other way and shrug it of.
We need to be like the ones during the days of Esdras, who worked at rebuilding with one hand, and held their sword with the other at the same time.
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Post by livinganewlife on Oct 16, 2005 9:57:19 GMT -5
Nikkol I find it interesting that in the same passage of scripture that you posted it also reads the highlighted area below:
Eph 6:5-8
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: 8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
As stillfocused stated WE ALL know what the Nation of Islam does and we all understand the Good that this organization does.
One thing this march should make us do and that is re evaluate the Work that WE AS SAINTS are or are not doing.
As someone stated earlier, WE Christians have all these conferences and conventions and their are registration fees accessed and some more stuff added on.
However, it just amazes ME that Farrakhan can organize over 1,000,000 people to come and hear him and others speak in a PARK for FREE!!!
One thing that has me thinking about our conferences:
That is When Did Comfort and Luxury become a Pre requisite in order to Teach Christ?
It seems these days that the Majority of our Large gatherings are in Major Hotels, Major convention edifices or Mega Churches. ......
Is comfort level important when Teaching Christ?
these folks are not hearing anything about Jesus being the Savior of your soul but yet they will stand and wait for hours, Not a COMFORTABLE situation because they are HUNGRY... and SEARCHING for something.
These are lost souls, our conferences do not reach out to lost souls. Some times lost souls can't afford registration fees, plus transportation.. and then all you want to give them is a Dog and Pony show of Jump 3 x's and say YEEESSSS!
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Post by stillfocused on Oct 16, 2005 14:37:11 GMT -5
There is no denial that Minister Farrakan has stated that he was "the messiah". Yet, there's a bigger picture they we sometimes can't see. He publicly made that comment; and yes, it may well be true that the spirit of the antichrist can be seen in his life. Sometimes we don't look past the person of the messenger because we can't. The Nation of Isalm does something that we sometimes don't they approach everybody and anybody. They make available what they believe in through their newspaper. And they also do something I haven't seen done by our Christian ministries..they make funds available for their of their congregation to open businesses in their neighborhoods. And they have the monies to rent any coliseum they want to; yet, they if plan correctly and it's FREE people will come from across this country to hear what they have to say. And this just something else to look at; since the death of Martin Luther King, Jr. there has not been another African American leader to rise up and lead people in a direction that would reflect the life and ways of Jesus Christ. Minister Farrakan has brought together a people in Washington, DC twice since the time that Dr. King did. Even though his beliefs don't reflect the same beliefs as Dr. King; because he is considered to be a "religious" leader; he may just be able to take a people to the "mountaintop" that many having been trying to get to since that famous speech spoken by Dr. King. Many saw Dr King as their "Deliverer". And just maybe some believe that Minister Farrakan is the next "deliverer"; because they feel he cares for the things that matter to them. And sadly, because many people are looking for a saviour; they look to man instead of looking to the Lord Christ; because our lives don't reflect the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
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Post by keita on Oct 16, 2005 15:23:40 GMT -5
Fact is, when people get hungry enough, they'll eat anything...  Here are just a few of the scriptures which have come to my mind regarding this event: Do not despise an Edomite, because he is your brother.(Dt 23:7) Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. (Amos 8:11-12) And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. (Lk 16:8) And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. (Mt 11:12) |
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Post by Anointed Teacher on Oct 16, 2005 19:25:19 GMT -5
You know sometimes; some things just get old. We all understand that the Nation of Isalm teaches that they believe that Christ is a part of the Trinity. Yet, one thing I do know is that they support our men when they come out of jail, they clothe they, they feed them, and yes, they put them to work and it doesn't cost them anything except their commitment. As for our well known Pastors, Preachers, Bishops, and etc when is the last time you have heard of any them having a conference that didn't cost their attendees anything and saw them giving the attendees something without a price being attached ? And since the Million Man March how many of our leaders have to travel to the cities across this country and call for believers to come to gather for 2 days of prayer. Sadly, we have not seen it. We all must admit that the people of God are tired of people telling them..."Turn to your neighbor and say, next year this time....., turn around 7 times and on the 7th time come out praising the Lord..., or " tell your neighbor that you're going to receive quadruple for for you trouble.....". And then walk out of the church, the conferences, and etc. just as depressed and broke as they were before when they got there. As for that spirit that operates in some folk...it's the spirit of pride !! It operates in us, our Pastors, our big time Pastors, and many others...only thing is that others recognize before we even get a hint it's there. This event has only proven that people want more than what they have been receiving..which for some is truth, encouragement, and a leader who is not afraid to speak what's on his mind. Whose coming with no agendas, no motives, and no money. I believe that we would rise up and come out from the 4 walls of our church buildings, building funds, and do things that will touch the hearts and souls of men..people wouldn't have a need to follow the voice of any other because they would know the voice of the true shepherd Jesus Christ. This is what I mean by the mind-set.................. There are thousands of crusade (FREE) being held throughout the USA every year by known and unknown ministers. There are thousands of jail ministries that provide shelters, clothes,food and job program for those men and women that are released from jail by known and unknown ministries. There are thousands of drugs and homeless ministries. The owner of the buildings where I work, got saved in jail and was provided with a place to stay and job by a local ministry. His sister got saved in jail and was provided a place to stay by a local ministry. There are thousands of street ministries, that go out into the street where the drugs deals, addict, prostitute etc. to minister and offer help through-out the USA. Minister Benny Hinn had a free crusade in the Miami Area that lasted a full week. He paid thousands of dollars out of his own pocket, thousands got saved and healed. He is not the only one, there are many doing the same. There is a different between crusade (free) and conference (not free), they serve different purpose. Crusade reaches out to bring souls into the Kingdom and conferences are for those who are already in the Kingdom want to get more than what they normally get from the four walls of their church. Those who leave conference frustrated, is because they choose to leave that way. Because they expect the conference to do what God can only do in their life. Giving Praise to a false prophet over the true men and Women of God is ashame! Speaking of what you think he accomplished with the AA Men over what you think the ministers of God accomplished is also ashame >:(He did not offer them salvation, that is more important than anything else. |
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Post by Nikkol on Oct 16, 2005 20:31:17 GMT -5
Piggy back off of previous post, I wrote this before reading it:
Although I don't believe in using the word "trinity" to referring to God, one reading regarding NOI view of the trinity and deity of Christ is:
The Trinity. The Nation of Islam denies the Trinity. "The Christians refer to God as a ‘Mystery’ and a ‘Spirit’ and divide Him into thirds. One part they call the Father, another part the Son, and the third part they call the Holy Ghost — which makes the three, one. This is contrary to both nature and mathematics. The law of mathematics will not allow us to put three into one."5 "Making the Son and the Holy Ghost the equal with the Father is absolutely sinful."
Deity of Christ. The Nation of Islam rejects the essential Christian doctrine that Jesus is both God and man. Jesus "did not consider himself to be God or a son of God or equal of Him....Jesus was only a man and prophet of Allah."7 In a four-hour videotape of Louis Farrakhan’s 1994 Easter Service, "The Crucifixion of Jesus: The Imprisonment of Minister Farrakhan," Farrakhan discusses the crucifixion and relates it to himself, saying, "I am hanging on the cross right now. I’m on Calvary right now and the more I suffer, the more our people are raised to consciousness....you don’t have to look for Jesus. I represent him. I was born to die for you and I love the thought of dying for you."8
The Holy Spirit. The Nation of Islam denies that the Holy Spirit is God. They view the Spirit as a "spook."
There are many ministries around the US that do that. If you type in Prison ministry, you'll find a list of many different ministries that deal specifically with prison ministry.
We want to make sure that we don't equate helping of AA's with conferences. They are in and of itself two different things. For example, I work in corporate america. They have different conferences that have information about my job.... however, that same information is usually available at my place of enployment. Therefore, although a conference is available, I don't "need" to go. Same with one of these religious conferences, one doesn't "need" to go.... there are ministries in the area that you (general) live that can feed you what you need. COnferences are a luxury..... somewhat like honeymoons or anniversaries. (don't have to go out of town.... but it surely is nice :-) )
Honestly, that isn't necessary. As many people that are in our own (general) city, although there is no problem fellowshipping with people in other cities, the focus should still be at home first and spread abroad. I think that no matter where we live, there is so much "at home" things that we can do that even if it were time to "spread abroad", as long as everyone is dealing specifically at home, there could always be a gathering for prayer. Granted this may not be seen all the time in big churches. However, between the sall churches and cell groups of big churches, there's a lot of prayer and work being done.
Yet we see that they are living with great motivation (maybe) but still lacking what is most important....Jesus. I was just reading another article regarding money and NOI:
Within the Nation the obligations are many. Members are expected both to sell copies of the Nation's paper, The Final Call, and submit tithes. Male members of the Fruit Of Islam are required to learn martial arts. All are required to adhere to the dress code. If a member of the Nation wants to start a relationship with another member, they must make it known to their squadron leader, who will then pass the message on. They may then go on chaperoned dates until they are ready to commit, at which time they can marry.
Actually there's a few interesting things in there.... however, they are required (at least the men are) to pay tithes and many pastors will and do say that if all the members would pay tithes, they would be able to do a lot more than they are currently doing.
At the same time, we know that there will be a GREAT falling away and that many false prophets will rise, etc. So we (general) shouldn't be surprised that many people choose to follow a lie.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth F5 that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be d**ned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
There are churches that a person can go to to find out more about Jesus. One doesn't need to go to a conference. Conferences are just a "perk", not a necessity. Those that are lost need to seek for truth. For is someone is searching for truth, they'll find Jesus. However, if one is seeking for a conference, than that is all they'll find.
BTW, looking at the context of verse 8 that you quoted: (italics added for clarity)
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth as to the Lord, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
It is all about what we are doing as unto the Lord... not just any "good thing"
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Post by ybrown on Oct 16, 2005 22:33:28 GMT -5
[As I stated in my orginal post, I've edited this post to delete portions of it.] These are some conclusions that I’ve come to regarding the NOI and its members: - The Nation of Islam is more of a race/social cause organization than anything else
- They are for the Black man ONLY. They love ONLY the Black race
- Love for the Black race is what fuels the organization, not love of their god
- The only other thing/person they love more than the black race is Farrakhan. They see Farrakhan (affectionately known as The Minister) as their god’s messenger and that only he speaks for Allah. Whatever he says is law and straight from Allah. It appears that the people actually put them both on the same level
- The reason people join the organization is because they have a deep-rooted dislike/hate for white people
- They believe that Farrakhan is their messiah and is THE one that’s going to deliver, not just them, but every black man on earth from the clutches of the white man’s world
- The men are respectful to the women and know how to dress and keep their hair cutz tight
- The women don’t dress like hoochies. I saw not a one wearing anything even remotely close to anything inappropriate
- They all see each other as brothers and sisters, united for a cause. They maintain that brotherhood/sisterhood by greeting one another as brother and sister
- From what I observed, not once did they pray as a group, ever offer up a prayer, talk about prayer, etc.
- They don’t talk about their Quran or anything in it
- They are deeply indoctrinated
- If Christians would stop seeing them as the enemy, and start seeing them simply as other unbelievers and reach out to them we could reach a lot of them for the Kingdom
- They need Jesus
One last thing, just to dispel an invalid belief, just because someone mentions Christ or says they’re a Christian does not make it so. I was standing with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and they truly are opportunistic publicity sleepers. I had to walk away. They did nothing if a camera was not in their faces and actually did anything they could to garner attention, including walking down a path, literally waving just to capture the attention of the people so that they would take pictures of them. These are people that would not have seen them otherwise! I saw this transpire with my own two eyes! It was shameful. All I could say was Lord, deliver these brothers and help them enter into a relationship with your son! Now, imagine the Jackson/Shapton circus multipled fifty times if this had been a Christian event with all the so-called superstar preachers. I shudder at that thought and pray that would not have been the case. stillfocused hit the nail on the head when she said this: And just maybe some believe that Minister Farrakan is the next "deliverer"; because they feel he cares for the things that matter to them. And sadly, because many people are looking for a saviour; they look to man instead of looking to the Lord Christ; because our lives don't reflect the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Amen, Sis!! |
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Post by Jasmine nsi on Oct 17, 2005 2:27:45 GMT -5
I am certainly glad that you shared this with us.. and In my humble opinion, all the more for us to recognize and pray. While I certainly did not post all the questions rather conclusions, i did have a response to the majority of them.
There is nothing wrong with being nice.
They are much more than that.
If they love only the black race, it means they Hate everybody else. And Yes, I have heard him say he hates whites & jews. Which is definitely ironic, when most jews are muslims.
Oh trust me, their god is the black man..If anyone has every read on what they believe, you'd be suprised on what the name "allah" actually represents to them. It means more than just 'God'
sounds like another Jim Jones to me.
A deep-root that needs to be uprooted. This is a problem.
lol,
As most christian women.
I totally agree.
Most definitely
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Post by stillfocused1 on Oct 17, 2005 19:26:08 GMT -5
AT..I have never once idolized Minister Farrakan. Yet, I respect what the NOI does with our men. Yes, then need Christ..yet, how will they hear if we don't take the gospel to them in nonconfrontational way ? I lived in the surburbs of major city back East. And I was always running in these brothers with their papers. The funny one brother told me God bless you; and keep right on selling those papers. I happened to be living down the street from a young man; who boldly said he was muslim. Yet, God didn't have me minister to him in a nasty way; he gave wisdom to speak to this young man right where he was.
As for my comment on them believing that they believe in the Trinty...forgot the "don't".
I happened to have the opportunity of getting to know one of Minister Farrakan's nephew. Who happened to marry a young lady who was a Christian. My son happened to be walking home from the train station from a shopping spree. When he passed their store..the young man gave the newspapers; my son knew what it represented and did something that many of us wouldn't have done. He took the paper and put it in bags; and brought home and threw it away..after walking by a trash can near their store. He said something interesting " He didn't want to hurt his feelings". He brought the paper and said "Mama look at what Andrew (not real name) gave me; and threw the paper in the trash can" And then don't say anything....because this brother knew my stand on the NOI. Yet, my son a young person; showed more of Christ; by kindly taking the paper and not going off on him. As for defining what conferences and crusades it's not important. Just like the NOI idolizes their leaders; the body of Christ has host of leaders that they idolize and if I remember correctly God told us not
have any other idols; and that was a jealous God. What applies those who profess to born again does not apply to those who don't.
YBrown thanks for sharing with us and may God continue to give you wisdom and the open doors to minister to those who may never hear the good news otherwise.
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Post by LANL ns on Oct 18, 2005 5:40:00 GMT -5
YBrown BINGO on this statement:
If Christians would stop seeing them as the enemy, and start seeing them simply as other unbelievers and reach out, to them we could reach a lot of them for the Kingdom
They need Jesus
If we minister to these same intelligent people and recruit them for Christ the way they recruit our men for Islam than what a WONDERFUL Kingdom we will have.
And what great warriors we will have in our neighborhoods!
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Post by LANL ns on Oct 18, 2005 5:45:10 GMT -5
I need to add this: The NOI give our men who are Lost a PURPOSE.............
We teach Christ and present Christ to the men and to the lost but often times beyond the altar call there is no Purpose..........
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Post by Nikkol on Oct 18, 2005 7:10:05 GMT -5
Even if a person is given a Wordly purpose, without Christ, they still are lost. Additionally, we should give everyone Jesus. But the truth of the matter is that many people will not accept and/or their hearts aren't open to be able to recieve. Remember, we can plant and we can water, but only God can give the increase.
Because of this question, I have been reading up about NOI and it has some very interesting information.
Their main goal is to create land for just black people and have caucasians pay for it until we have enough to continue on our own. This of course is a "separatist attitude". I would hope that as a Christian we would see the big picture, that being more than just black people for we know in heaven that heaven won't be separated by race. The common thing that should exist is if one has the spirit of Christ, that in and of itself should be a binding factor, for they are our brothers and sisters no matter what their race is.
The big picture is souls, not race. And if one sees race as the big picture rather than souls.......that's dangerous
BTW: In one post there was a mention of a connection with another person's spirit....did this person have the spirit of God? If not, what were you connected with/to?
Lastly, it is Christ that gives us purpose for only He knows what is best.
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Post by Anointed Teacher on Oct 18, 2005 7:13:18 GMT -5
I need to add this: The NOI give our men who are Lost a PURPOSE............. We teach Christ and present Christ to the men and to the lost but often times beyond the altar call there is no Purpose.......... There is no purpose or true vision without Jesus... What type of purpose? Pride? hatred brain washed  and anti-christ Our primary purpose is to be with the Lord  Many ministries direct men and women to their true destiny and purpose in Christ. There many pastors and ministers who came to Christ off the street without a purpose or vision. They have powerful testimonies. I came from a city that was mostly Muslim in NJ. Most of the students in my high school were Muslim. In college I dated a few Muslim. I'm very aware of the spirit they walk in. I never disrespect them, even before I got saved I've tried to ministered to them . One of my college roommate was a Muslim and we got along very well. She was a black Muslim not by choice, but by her uncle who adopted her. Before we separated, I made sure she new who Jesus is and that he love her. It been almost 25year since I seem her, I truly believe she have accepted Jesus, because her heart was soft and all her friends were Christians, her Muslim friends took advantage of her and used her(financially). Gal 1:6-8 tell us if anyone preaches another gospel is accursed. We don't suppose to go and see anybody thats call himself the messiah, as Giant said, it is the spirit of anti-christ. All the so call good work is nothing but deception... The Bible tell us that even the elected can be disceived... AT |
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. He do not preach or teach the same Jesus we serve. He do not believe Jesus is God..... it is against his muslim belief 
. It is more than worldly event, it is a religious gathering for the black muslims in the USA, Christian do not belong there 
. It only show where some people heart is at 
and anti-christ 
Many ministries direct men and women to their true destiny and purpose in Christ. There many pastors and ministers who came to Christ off the street without a purpose or vision. They have powerful testimonies.